Should "patriotism" look the same to blacks as it does to whites?

In case you have been..............

History does shape the future. The idea that this notion is bogus as we'd still be practicing slavery, is simply a misunderstanding. Future shapes our future by progressing the society by recognizing past wrongs--and not repeating them. They help us to draw correlations to similar issues and understand perhaps why certain policies have failed in the past, and why new policies would be more effective.

I am not black, and I can't pretend to understand the historical viewpoint of someone who is. It was said that patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel. There is nothing wrong with having pride or appreciation for your country, but when its used as the pretext to stifle discussion and reasoning, it becomes a political power tool--and that is wholly unpatriotic. The Bushites and the partisan republicans HAVE used this as a tool--as do many Presidents during a controversial war.

That is, in and of itself, reprehensible. Teddy Roosevelt himself said that suggesting that a President, regardless of war or peace, should be exempt for criticizing is a treasonous suggestion.

Our history has left much to be desired of this country.



Bill


asleep... professor... during the entire course of this board...it is the Liberals who always bring up racism and use it as a tool...they invented the 'race card' and they always bring it up when losing a debate!...Regardless of the content!
 
...which is the entire adult lifetime of most of them.

None of them were ever slaves, nor were they particularly oppressed in this country, especially compared to nearly every other modern country on earth.

Some of my ancestors DIED fighting to free the slaves in the Civil War... but I didn't. I don't consider that black people owe me anything for my ancestors' supreme sacrifice.

Some of black people's ancestors were held in slavery before the Civil War, a horrible condition... but none of the people alive today ever were. Why do some of them consider I owe them something for their ancestor's dreadful lives, which my ancestors died to emancipate?

Slavery is over. Bigotry and oppression is nearly over, despite the hysterical rantings of Barack's mentor. It is miniscule, compared to the bad old days. And what little is left, is steadily diminishing... except in the halls of Congress and "advocates" such as Jackson, Sharpton, and Wright, who continue to treat blacks as second-class citizens who can't make it without help.

Get over it. Get a life instead.

Hmmm .. it appears that you aren't very good with math. I offered you the mathematics, the very science of the argument, but still it went right over your head .. which was not unexpected I might add.

Actually, I'm glad you came back. Both you and BB offer glariing example of the kind of unintellictual neanderthal thinking that has gripped this nation for far too long. It is the thinking of people like you who have forced many whites to stand in front of the mirror and ask themselves .. "How in the fuck could I have ever believed or associated myself with thinking like yours."

Seriously .. Jackson, Sharpton, and Wright aren't your enemy .. you are.

They didn't drive this kind of thinking out of the American mainstream and out of the conciousness of intelligent people .. you did.

You expose yourself and I'd have no problem discussing this to any level or degree you'd like .. because you expose yourself.

Mathemeatics completely destroys your argument .. 42 years.

I'm 58 .. did my parents experience racism, bigotry, terrorism, and overt oppression in theri lives? .. You do the math.

Buffalo Soldiers?

Who are the Buffalo Soldiers?

African Americans have fought in military conflicts since colonial days. However, the Buffalo Soldiers, comprised of former slaves, freemen and Black Civil War soldiers, were the first to serve during peacetime.

Once the Westward movement had begun, prominent among those blazing treacherous trails of the Wild West were the Buffalo Soldiers of the U.S. Army. These African Americans were charged with and responsible for escorting settlers, cattle herds, and railroad crews. The 9th and 10th Cavalry Regiments also conducted campaigns against American Indian tribes on a western frontier that extended from Montana in the Northwest to Texas, New Mexico, and Arizona in the Southwest. Throughout the era of the Indian Wars, approximately twenty percent of the U.S. Cavalry troopers were Black, and they fought over 177 engagements. The combat prowess, bravery, tenaciousness, and looks on the battlefield, inspired the Indians to call them "Buffalo Soldiers." Many Indians believe the name symbolized the Native American's respect for the Buffalo Soldiers' bravery and valor. Buffalo Soldiers, down through the years, have worn the name with pride.

Buffalo Soldiers participated in many other military campaigns: The Spanish American War, The Philippine Insurrection, The Mexican Expedition, World War I, World War II, and the Korean Police Action.

Much have changed since the days of the Buffalo Soldiers, including the integration of all military servicemen and women. However, the story of the Buffalo Soldiers remain one of unsurpassed courage and patriotism, and will be forever a significant part of the history of America.
http://www.buffalosoldiers.com/

They were soldiers and they did what soldiers do, and they did it well. The Indian tribes not only knew and respected the role of warrior, they admired it. Just because they were Indian did not mean that they were stupid. They knew the role blacks had been thrust in and they met on the battlefield as warriors.

Question .. If you have Indian heritage, why don't you know that .. and why don't you know Indian perspective of race .. and why don't you know any Indian history?

Do you believe that all our troops in Iraq, black or white, believe that Iraqis are his enemy? They are soldiers and they do what soldiers do.

And rest assured ..you don't owe me or black people a damn thing. You aren't even needed, not required. You stay right where you are and America will continue to evolve without you .. and that's the good news about you.

Tell you what .. whatever you do, don't vote for Obama .. see if it matters. Let's see if anybody needs you.

I understand your fear .. I simply have no tolerance for it.
 
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Great site BAC.

I see some Great Movie potential in some of those people mentioned.

A little big man style look at the 108 year old buffalo soldier would make some great material.
 
asleep... professor... during the entire course of this board...it is the Liberals who always bring up racism and use it as a tool...they invented the 'race card' and they always bring it up when losing a debate!...Regardless of the content!

I would find credence in your generalization if racism still didn't exist in this country--which it does. So long as people continue to hate black people because they're black, they will continue to cry racism when they get treated unfairly. And why shouldn't they in a country that purports to treat all equally and fairly?

The race card was not invented by liberals. It was propagated by racist actions by southerners who indoctrinated blacks to believe that being treated unfairly was natural and okay. And the only way to combat political racism, is to call it what it is--racism.

And please, feel free to post sites of every argument a black person has had in America to verify your generalization that they always play the "race card." I assure you, you won't find it.



Bill
 
Great site BAC.

I see some Great Movie potential in some of those people mentioned.

A little big man style look at the 108 year old buffalo soldier would make some great material.

Rent "Sargent Rutledge" with Woody Strode. It's one of the few American movies that paid tribute to the Buffalo Soldier.
 
There is one line in little big man about them.

The old man talks about once seeing a black white man. He comments that they are not as ugly as the white white man.

There is a vast bit of material ready to be tapped. I really think it could be a major motion picture success. Oscar material. Imagine the Coen Brothers or Spike Lee.

What the hell happened to Spike Lee's carreer anyway?
 
There is one line in little big man about them.

The old man talks about once seeing a black white man. He comments that they are not as ugly as the white white man.

There is a vast bit of material ready to be tapped. I really think it could be a major motion picture success. Oscar material. Imagine the Coen Brothers or Spike Lee.

What the hell happened to Spike Lee's carreer anyway?

Spike got fat (rich) and lost his edge.

The better director would be either John Singleton, or my favorite, Antoine Fuqua.

Have you seen "Tears of the Sun?"

No matter how many times I watch that movie emotion overcomes me by the end. It was a depiction of an America I can be proud of, that I am proud of.
 
Spike got fat (rich) and lost his edge.

The better director would be either John Singleton, or my favorite, Antoine Fuqua.

Have you seen "Tears of the Sun?"

No matter how many times I watch that movie emotion overcomes me by the end. It was a depiction of an America I can be proud of, that I am proud of.

I will pick it up, thanks.
 
This is true. And in this shorter period of time the "new white people" got to vote on a wholesale level much faster than blacks did. They got to go to colleges and public schools before Blacks. They got to hold good paying jobs and marry who they wanted BEFORE blacks. Long and short they were white and it was easier, in the long term, to become American that it was for generations of black who were born here. The Irish in Boston weren't forbidden from going to school with the WASP's, the Italians were not made to ride at the back of the bus or subway while the WASP's rode up front. Not participating in slavery is only a part of it. They still became AMERICAN before blacks regardless of the 13th 14th and 15th Amendments.

Oh, I agree. I am not trying to subtract from what blacks in America have experienced for I am not black and have not faced the centuries of inequality. What I was trying to say is that not all whites can be lumped into a category, though. Although privileges were available (and the Irish were severely discriminated against, by the way) to immigrants sooner than to blacks, the institutional racism of the country was also alien to the newcomers.
 
Spike got fat (rich) and lost his edge.

The better director would be either John Singleton, or my favorite, Antoine Fuqua.

Have you seen "Tears of the Sun?"

No matter how many times I watch that movie emotion overcomes me by the end. It was a depiction of an America I can be proud of, that I am proud of.

Just did a search on it and cant believe I missed this one. Now I have agood movie for the weekend. Im going to pick it up at the video store today. Thanks
 
Just did a search on it and cant believe I missed this one. Now I have agood movie for the weekend. Im going to pick it up at the video store today. Thanks

Also get "Rabbit-Proof Fence", some popcorn, lots of tissues, and you've got yourself a great educational and entertaining weekend my sister.

However, be forewarned, they are uncomfortable films.
 
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We still live in a country that has racial disparity in sentencing this article and the PDF http://www.soros.org/initiatives/ju...ations/publications/racial_disparity_20050128 shows that blacks and latinos get harsher sentences than similarly situated whites, blacks are more likely to be jailed while awaiting trial, Evidence of direct discrimination at the federal level is more prominent than at the state level, Unemployed black males tend to be sentenced more severely than comparably situated white males, the race of the victim tends to have an effect on the sentence outcome, with white victim cases more often resulting in death sentences and the hits just keep coming.

In my experience white kids get their criminal cases deferred or dealt with outside the judicial system far more than black and latino kids with similar backgrounds.

Blacks get sentenced to prison far more than whites and sentence discrepencies between crack and powder cocaine, which more whites get incarcerated for, are huge.

Liberals did not invent the race card, it was dealt straight from the pack by the racists system that serves as dealer.
 
Well for starters..............

I would find credence in your generalization if racism still didn't exist in this country--which it does. So long as people continue to hate black people because they're black, they will continue to cry racism when they get treated unfairly. And why shouldn't they in a country that purports to treat all equally and fairly?

The race card was not invented by liberals. It was propagated by racist actions by southerners who indoctrinated blacks to believe that being treated unfairly was natural and okay. And the only way to combat political racism, is to call it what it is--racism.

And please, feel free to post sites of every argument a black person has had in America to verify your generalization that they always play the "race card." I assure you, you won't find it.
________________________________________________________________

Jackson,Wright and the NYC thug(Sharpton)...all claiming to be reverends all inclusive, however all you see them at are places where race was not a issue and they turn it into a major race issue...putting this aside...I was referring to White male and female Liberals they are the ones who dredge up the race card everytime they are losing a debate or race...and for the record have you ever been to a government agency of any type and found the proportion of African Americans are not equal to or surpass white employees...yeah real unfair treatment there...great wages and benefits...give it a rest already!
 
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You BAC...........

A distorted view of America to say the least.

My parents were born here and they were not born "free" as you suggest. Jim Crow laws were in full effect, segregation and open overt discrimination was the rule of law, lynchings were commonplace, and they were not allowed to vote.

Don't know your definition of "free" but what my parents and the families of many just like them faced was a long ass way from freedom.

Africans did nothing to native Americans and native Americans were instrumental in the freedom from slavery for a great many African-Americans. You need a real understanding of American history and the history of the relationship between native Americans and slaves. You can start with the "Trail of Tears" .. then try to understand why so many African-Americans, like me, have the blood of native Americans coursing through of veins.

Are Black Cherokees and Sioux not known to you?

Haven't you ever attended a Pow-Wow?

Are you unaware that blacks and natives fought wars together?

Are you unaware that they inter-married and built towns and forts together?

If your father was native American, it doesn't appear that he passed any native history or culture to you.

It appears you could also use a history lesson on hispanics and blacks. You can start with the real reason for the battle of the Alamo. There is little real conflict between hispanics and African-Americans. Hispanics gobble up black culture and perhaps you can post any wholesale violence or riots between blacks and hispanics outside of prison. Without question, there will be FAR more hispanics voting for Obama than there will be those voting for McCain.

AND .. the fact that black men were allowed to vote before women is no testament to American society because both were being discriminated against.

Finally, feel free to identify yourself as anything you choose .. I choose to identify myself as an African-American and will continue to do so until the struggle is complete.


are a racist and a biggot...and quit using Native Americans as your backdrop...'sola washnee nah washetta' and a friend of mine who happens to be Blackfeet told me to tell you... you have been named 'Walking Eagle'...'Too full of shit to fly'!
 
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