Should "patriotism" look the same to blacks as it does to whites?

[uscitizen]

so rascism is only a southern thing BB ?

 

[Battleborne]

Nope...............

so rascism is only a southern thing BB ?

It also falls on the other side of the fence...BAC/Wright/Jackson/Sharpton made this perfectly clear...don't even go here with me us cit...BAC tried to pull the Native American card...he is full of shit!...Yeah right only blacks fought and inter-married with Natives...and were the only troops considered brave in our eyes...what a crock of shit! he forgot to mention that the 'Buffalo Soldiers' took more scalps than the so called white troopers! Gotta love Hollywoods version about history on both sides of the fence!

 

[evince]

BB this is not a card game.

There are no cards.

Its not a game.

Its human beings talking about history.

The history of the US is not a bright and shiney clean slate with nothing but pretty imagines and happy faces.

You deal with the real history and the facts if you want to really learn the lessons life has to offer.

You will FOREVER misuderstand the world if you dont face the truth.

If you refuse to face the truth and accept the facts then you always be looked at as a fool.

I just dont understand why fools would think Thinking people will be convienced by arguements that ask them to "Just get over" the facts.

 

[blackascoal]

are a racist and a biggot...and quit using Native Americans as your backdrop...'sola washnee nah washetta' and a friend of mine who happens to be Blackfeet told me to tell you... you have been named 'Walking Eagle'...'Too full of shit to fly'!

You have friends?

How about trying posting something you can accomplish instead of tryiung to tell me what to do.

Your ignorance of history is glaring.

 

[PresidentialScholar]

Jackson,Wright and the NYC thug(Sharpton)...all claiming to be reverends all inclusive, however all you see them at are places where race was not a issue and they turn it into a major race issue...putting this aside...I was referring to White male and female Liberals they are the ones who dredge up the race card everytime they are losing a debate or race...and for the record have you ever been to a government agency of any type and found the proportion of African Americans are not equal to or surpass white employees...yeah real unfair treatment there...great wages and benefits...give it a rest already!

You list three prominent African-Americans and that means all black people play the race card? There is no credence to this entire argument. The race card is played only by extreme civil rights leaders and militants, or when someone legitimately feels like they're being wronged because of racism--and it still occurs.

 

[blackascoal]

It also falls on the other side of the fence...BAC/Wright/Jackson/Sharpton made this perfectly clear...don't even go here with me us cit...BAC tried to pull the Native American card...he is full of shit!...Yeah right only blacks fought and inter-married with Natives...and were the only troops considered brave in our eyes...what a crock of shit! he forgot to mention that the 'Buffalo Soldiers' took more scalps than the so called white troopers! Gotta love Hollywoods version about history on both sides of the fence!

Not only a fool, but a blatant liar as well.

Scalping was a particular bit of savagery mostly done by US Troops and white settlers, particularly by the men assigned to Gen. George A. Forsyth. In fact, there was a bounty for Indian scalps, including those of women and children.

The history of Indian and European scalping
The history of the savage practice of scalping victims.

How did the Indians start scalping their victims? One theory is that they learned it from the European settlers. A few Indian tribes had practiced scalping to a very limited extent before the Europeans arrived.

More often than not, scalping was practiced as a response in kind. The Eurpoeans had taught them, first hand, the horror of viewing the mutilated remains of their families and friends after an attack by white settlers. By inflicting the same mutilation on their enemies they had hoped to stem the onslaught of these white settlers that were invading their land. To some Indians,if the attacks could not stop the whites, at least it would send the message that they were prepared to be as unscrupulous as the Europeans. The Iroquois in particular, used scalping to this purpose.

----

This practice of paying a scalp bounty inspired a widespread retaliation from the Indians. White frontiersmen would scalp not only the warriors but also the women and the children. In many cases the scalp was not even taken from an Indian. The government could not tell the difference. However, the Indians were blamed for initiating the practice, because no European would stoop so low as to take a scalp. It should also be noted that only the Indians were held accountable for the practice.

http://www.essortment.com/all/historyscalpin_rdrp.htm

POST EVIDENCE THAT BUFFALO SOLDIERS "TOOK MORE SCALPS THAN WHITE TROOPERS"

I'm glad you're posting in this thread as you demonstrate how ignorance only leads to more ignorance.

 

[Don Quixote]

A distorted view of America to say the least.

My parents were born here and they were not born "free" as you suggest. Jim Crow laws were in full effect, segregation and open overt discrimination was the rule of law, lynchings were commonplace, and they were not allowed to vote.

Don't know your definition of "free" but what my parents and the families of many just like them faced was a long ass way from freedom.

Africans did nothing to native Americans and native Americans were instrumental in the freedom from slavery for a great many African-Americans. You need a real understanding of American history and the history of the relationship between native Americans and slaves. You can start with the "Trail of Tears" .. then try to understand why so many African-Americans, like me, have the blood of native Americans coursing through of veins.

Are Black Cherokees and Sioux not known to you?

Haven't you ever attended a Pow-Wow?

Are you unaware that blacks and natives fought wars together?

Are you unaware that they inter-married and built towns and forts together?

If your father was native American, it doesn't appear that he passed any native history or culture to you.

It appears you could also use a history lesson on hispanics and blacks. You can start with the real reason for the battle of the Alamo. There is little real conflict between hispanics and African-Americans. Hispanics gobble up black culture and perhaps you can post any wholesale violence or riots between blacks and hispanics outside of prison. Without question, there will be FAR more hispanics voting for Obama than there will be those voting for McCain.

AND .. the fact that black men were allowed to vote before women is no testament to American society because both were being discriminated against.

Finally, feel free to identify yourself as anything you choose .. I choose to identify myself as an African-American and will continue to do so until the struggle is complete.

bac

this going to take a while

first, my paternal grandparents were born on the colville reservation (north central washington) i was born in los angeles ca

no, my father did not pass much on as he split before i was 5, also, northwestern indians had potlatches not pow-wows

while the ca constitution still allows for slavery (ca was admitted to the union as a slave state) slavery was not a major part of ca life (subjugating
indians was) - check out captain jack and how much trouble he made for the anglos

as someone already pointed out, the buffalo soldiers did a number on the indians

i do not know where you live, but in la there are real conflicts between latinos and blacks (crips and bloods, et al)

yes, i studied us history and while most of the slavery occurred in the south, the north was not innocent, especially since many of the slave ships were owned and piloted by northern whites

check out how the irish immigrants were treated when they came to the us during the great potato famine in ireland

also, there were indentured servants that were not treated much better than slaves and they were mostly white

as for women, they are still discriminated against, especially single mothers whose husbands or the father of their children split leaving the mother to raise their kids

as for blacks and indians intermarrying, they were both shit on by anglos so they tended to accept each other

blacks were not and are not the only ones who had/have problems in the good old us of a

perhaps you may of heard of black college graduates, professionals and upper and middle class in numbers sociologically significant

how about teaching that education is the answer - get more parents involved at their kids schools and at home - ghetto schools are the same whether they are in slums or on reservations - they suck and the kids are rarely motivated

my children grew up in mixed neighborhoods where asians, blacks and latinos as well as anglos lived

does more need to be done, hell yes and when i was discriminated against i got off my ass and worked to better myself and make things better for my wife and children - yeah, i was raised as a wasp in a wasp area, but that is not the whole story

and as for the alamo, texas originally belonged to mexico and the texans who were allowed to settle there were allowed to by the people that ran what is now the united states of mexico and rebelled against that government because they wanted to join the us of a

ca did something similar (hence the bear republic flag) and for a short while was an independent republic

mostly, history is not like the history books in school say - only in recent years is some of the truth coming out

 

[blackascoal]

bac

this going to take a while

first, my paternal grandparents were born on the colville reservation (north central washington) i was born in los angeles ca

no, my father did not pass much on as he split before i was 5, also, northwestern indians had potlatches not pow-wows

while the ca constitution still allows for slavery (ca was admitted to the union as a slave state) slavery was not a major part of ca life (subjugating
indians was) - check out captain jack and how much trouble he made for the anglos

as someone already pointed out, the buffalo soldiers did a number on the indians

i do not know where you live, but in la there are real conflicts between latinos and blacks (crips and bloods, et al)

yes, i studied us history and while most of the slavery occurred in the south, the north was not innocent, especially since many of the slave ships were owned and piloted by northern whites

check out how the irish immigrants were treated when they came to the us during the great potato famine in ireland

also, there were indentured servants that were not treated much better than slaves and they were mostly white

as for women, they are still discriminated against, especially single mothers whose husbands or the father of their children split leaving the mother to raise their kids

as for blacks and indians intermarrying, they were both shit on by anglos so they tended to accept each other

blacks were not and are not the only ones who had/have problems in the good old us of a

perhaps you may of heard of black college graduates, professionals and upper and middle class in numbers sociologically significant

how about teaching that education is the answer - get more parents involved at their kids schools and at home - ghetto schools are the same whether they are in slums or on reservations - they suck and the kids are rarely motivated

my children grew up in mixed neighborhoods where asians, blacks and latinos as well as anglos lived

does more need to be done, hell yes and when i was discriminated against i got off my ass and worked to better myself and make things better for my wife and children - yeah, i was raised as a wasp in a wasp area, but that is not the whole story

and as for the alamo, texas originally belonged to mexico and the texans who were allowed to settle there were allowed to by the people that ran what is now the united states of mexico and rebelled against that government because they wanted to join the us of a

ca did something similar (hence the bear republic flag) and for a short while was an independent republic

mostly, history is not like the history books in school say - only in recent years is some of the truth coming out

I can appreciate your perspective while at the same time not agreeing with it.

1. I asked you to post any serious violent disagreements or riots between blacks and hispanics outside of prison, but all you could come up with are gangs. Gangs don't count .. they don't even get along with other gangs of their own race. You perpetuate a falsehood and denigrate to discourse on race. There is no wholesale or common hate between blacks and hispanics.They often live together in the same neighborhoods and suffer some of the same pain. I don't know where you live, but I've lived in LA, now live in Atlanta .. lots of hispanics .. and I've never had any problem living around them and they've never had a problem living around me. They have beautiful children. I had to bone up on my spanish so I could talk to them.

You perpetuate a myth.

2. No disrespect intended, but I suggest that you actually study the factual history of the Buffalo Soldier before you profess to know what you're talking about. I gave you better information about them, but still you profess a half-truth. Surely you must be unaware of the special, sometimes tragic relationship that existed between blacks and Indians.

Black soldiers who fought in the Indian Wars, fought their opponents as they have done throughout this country's military history. They fought to win and to give their lives if necessary, for their personal beliefs. They wanted to gain the respect and equality they never saw as slaves and rarely received as freedmen. So, they continued on as soldiers. They were sadly mistaken in thinking they would gain these components of freedom, in a country built in-part by their enslavement and which still held deep racial and cultural prejudices.

As soon as these soldiers were relocated into their hostile environments, they were engaged in life and death struggles. They were under fire. Friends were killed and their oath to keep the peace, put to the test by Indians, settlers and those outside the law. Though they guarded railroads and telegraph lines, stagecoaches, arms shipments, towns, homesteads, whites and Indians, they never knew when they would be ambushed by foes or the very townspeople they were protecting! Not infrequently, just by entering a town or saloon, shoot-outs occurred. There was also the occasional sniper, waiting for a kill. Those that murdered troopers were never punished for their crimes, even when there were witnesses. The troopers always responded with a deadly intent of their own. When investigated by the military, those troopers found guilty were punished accordingly, but not always justly.

After arriving at their posts the alternatives to soldiering were: desert to all white communities, where they were regarded with hateful scorn and risk imprisonment. Death and torture at the hands of the Indians or possible death by exposure to the killing heat and freezing cold. Though the Buffalo Soldiers did their duty in carrying out the government's version of law and order on the frontier west, many influential blacks such as Senator Blanche Kelso Bruce, continually spoke out for the Indians and against the United States treaty making and treaty breaking policies.

http://www.buffalosoldier.net/

Some Indian tribes, particularly the Cherokee, kept black slaves.

Researching Black Indian Genealogy of the Five Civilized Tribes

It is known that many Africans intermarried with Native Americans. Less widely known is the fact that many Native Americans also owned African slaves, and fathered children with African slave women. In addition there were smaller numbers Free People of Color who lived in many of the nations and who also lived and married persons from the same nations, and whose descendants claim ancestry from the Oklahoma Black Indian people. As a result, thousands of Americans have African and Indian ancestry.

This web page is dedicated to the Freedmen of Indian Territory--now Oklahoma, who were the former slaves and also the Free Persons of Color in the Five Civilized Tribes. Within these nations-the Cherokee, Choctaw, Chickasaw, Creek and Seminole Nations -- genealogists will find thousands of records documenting the history of those African people living within the Indian nations. More than 20,000 Africans were adopted into these nations before the end of the 19th century. The Treaty of 1866 brought about the abolishment of Slavery in Indian Territory, and the adoption of the former slaves into 4 of the 5 nations. Although many of the nations have now chosen to ignore this critical treaty, the history stands as the major official connection of these Oklahoma nations have to their African brethren that cannot be disputed historically. This page shall contain transcriptions from official documents, and shall highlight methods of family history documentation that can be used by the hundreds of thousands of Indian Territory Freedman descendants.

http://www.african-nativeamerican.com/1IntroPage.htm

They built communties and fought against the US government together.

Fort Negro

When the British evacuated Florida in the spring of 1815, they left a well-constructed and fully-armed fort on the Apalachicola River in the hands of their allies, about 300 African Americans and 30 Seminole and Choctaw Indians. News of "Negro Fort" (as it came to be called) attracted as many as 800 black fugitives who settled in the surrounding area.

Under the command of a black man named Garson and a Choctaw chief (whose name is unknown), the inhabitants of Negro Fort not only provided protection for the community, but also launched raids across the Georgia border. According to the Savannah Journal, fugitives ran from as far away as Tennessee and the Mississippi Territory to seek refuge at the fort.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part3/3p1643.html

The Florida Seminole Nation is one of the Five Civilized Nations. They also accepted runaway slaves into their tribe. The Seminole Nation fought slavers, Indians and the U.S. government to keep their ancestral lands and farms, which delayed the annexation of Florida. The United States government invited their leaders Chief Coacoochee (Wild Cat) and Chief Osceola, the great medicine man, to take part in peace talks under a flag of truce. When the Seminole leaders arrived at the site of the negotiations they were promptly arrested. The Seminole Nation was marched to Indian Territory on what is now known as the "Trail of Tears", where hundreds of men, women and children were marched to their deaths.

Because of attacks from slavers and Creek Indians, the majority of the Seminoles and Seminole Negroes moved into Mexico. At the death of Chief Wild Cat, the Seminoles left Mexico for United States. Under the leadership of their black Seminole Chief John Horse, the Seminole Negroes stayed in Mexico away from slavery. Other Seminole, Creek and Cherokee Negroes joined them.

http://www.freewebs.com/black-legacy/slaveryindians.htm

Cities like New Orleans have a deep history of Indian-African alliamces.

I never said blacks were the only ones to inter-marry with Indians, but you brought up the subject and I've pointed out a special relationship between blacks and Indians that surely you can't seriously still be denying.

Much of what has been taught as American history actually amounts to nothing more than HIS-story, not real history .. such as, the Hollywood glorification of Jim Bowie and Davy Crockett notwithstanding, the battle of the Alamo was fought because the Mexican government would not allow the abomination of slavery on their soil. ie; Texas. American slavers felt they had a right to enslave whomever and whenever they chose. Santa Anna then formed an army.

There are absolutes about history, and they are not shaped by a refusal to acknowledge it.

 

[Topspin]

I diagree with your backhanded Slap of white people and your narrow simpleton view of republicans. I do feel you have a right as a black man to resent whitey for slavery. I do think there is more racism left than most posters and I firmly believe Barrack is the best man to start to fix this and a slew of other issues.

 

[Battleborne]

Yes/No but your BS is!

You have friends?

How about trying posting something you can accomplish instead of tryiung to tell me what to do.

Your ignorance of history is glaring.

Here you go Mr.'Buffalo Soldier' straight from the mouths of the Five Indian Nations...addressing your so called claim to Heritage et al...


www.americanchronicle.com/articles/22354

 

[blackascoal]

I diagree with your backhanded Slap of white people and your narrow simpleton view of republicans. I do feel you have a right as a black man to resent whitey for slavery. I do think there is more racism left than most posters and I firmly believe Barrack is the best man to start to fix this and a slew of other issues.

Post my "backhanded slap at white people" .. if you can.

Then post my "simpleton view of republicans" .. if you can.

I have clearly stated that many whites have been with blacks in every step of the struggle for civil and human rights.

I have clearly pointed out my admiration for conservative republican Senator Everett Dirksen and his involvement in civil rights, and the participation of his fellow republicans.

Please point out what you're talking about.

 

[blackascoal]

Here you go Mr.'Buffalo Soldier' straight from the mouths of the Five Indian Nations...addressing your so called claim to Heritage et al...


www.americanchronicle.com/articles/22354

What claim to "heritage" have I made?

My great grandmother was Ogala .. but I am an African-American, never once calling myself a "black Indian."

If you were smarter, I'd suggest to you that what you posted was an on-going disagreement about resources between Indians who call themselves "nativists" and descendants of slaves who intermarried with Indians and their children .. and there is a shitload of evidence that demonstrates the truth of this .. but that evidence would be useless to someone like you and a waste of time for me trying to educate you.

There is much in what you posted that I not oinly disagree with, but is also historically incorrect, but again, you would be a waste of time.

Earlier in this thread, you lied and dreamed up the false conclusion that Buffalo Soldiers, who YOU brought into the conversation, scalped more Indians than anyone else and I said you were a blatant liar and asked you to post that evidence .. you didn't, because you couldn't.

You're a liar and a waste of time.

I've posted lots of factual undeniable history illustrating the cooperation and mutual benefit between blacks and Indians, and I'm quite comfortable that posters with open minds fully understand this history.

Feel free to maintain any ignorance that you so feriously cling to .. frankly my dear, I don't give a damn.

 

[Battleborne]

Whatever..............

What claim to "heritage" have I made?

My great grandmother was Ogala .. but I am an African-American, never once calling myself a "black Indian."

If you were smarter, I'd suggest to you that what you posted was an on-going disagreement about resources between Indians who call themselves "nativists" and descendants of slaves who intermarried with Indians and their children .. and there is a shitload of evidence that demonstrates the truth of this .. but that evidence would be useless to someone like you and a waste of time for me trying to educate you.

There is much in what you posted that I not oinly disagree with, but is also historically incorrect, but again, you would be a waste of time.

Earlier in this thread, you lied and dreamed up the false conclusion that Buffalo Soldiers, who YOU brought into the conversation, scalped more Indians than anyone else and I said you were a blatant liar and asked you to post that evidence .. you didn't, because you couldn't.

You're a liar and a waste of time.

I've posted lots of factual undeniable history illustrating the cooperation and mutual benefit between blacks and Indians, and I'm quite comfortable that posters with open minds fully understand this history.

Feel free to maintain any ignorance that you so feriously cling to .. frankly my dear, I don't give a damn.

'Buffalo Soldier'....you asked for a link I gave you one...not my fault you are in denial of your actions on this board!


side note:you are such a fraud BAC...you brought up the Black Indian heritage... in post # 33 you stress your heritage again then post #72 you say your grandmother was Ogala...get your story straight before you write next time...and by the way this was long before my 'Buffalo Soldier' comment to another poster!

 

[blackascoal]

'Buffalo Soldier'....you asked for a link I gave you one...not my fault you are in denial of your actions on this board!


side note:you are such a fraud BAC...your post #25 brought up the Black Indian heritage...you stated your mother was half black and half Lakota...then in post # 33 you stress your heritage again then post #72 you say your grandmother was Ogala...get your story straight before you write next time...and by the way this was long before my 'Buffalo Soldier' comment to another poster!

Again, you're a liar .. AND an idiot.

Post #25 was written by a poster called "Good Luck" you idiot, not me.

I've never said anything about my mother at any time, particularly anything that would even remotely suggest she was anything other than black.

Here's a side note for you .. I can find better conversation than you, and I can find honest conversation .. with an adult .. with intelligence.

 

[blackascoal]

If history shaped the course of the future we'd still be practicing slavery. The fact that we have been able to make changes shows that history is not an insurmountable influence.

With respect, that doesn't make sense. Life is dynamic, not static .. and history does not make life stand still. History shapes the future by its recorded conclusion of events. I've never once characterized it as an "insurmountable influence." Why would you suggest that I have?

But history retains its influence on the future more when groups of people are unable to let go of past wrongs, and project those past wrongs onto current events.

Would that be true of Jews? Should thay just let go of past wrongs?

People learn from past wrongs, particularly abominations. History retains its influence on culture and society because it is nothing short of intelligent to do so. Life also does not exist in a bubble.

The idea that the so-called war on drugs is racist by intent is absolutely ludicrous. There is no great white conspiracy deliberately hooking blacks (or other minorities) on drugs. Drug use and trafficking is the choice of the individual. I do not agree with the majority of drug laws, but simultaneously understand that when one chooses to break the law they are simultaneously choosing to risk the legal and social consequences of breaking the law.

I remember as a youngster being told all about how drug use was associated with the black culture. As a young teen I seriously doubted that stereotype and I still disbelieve it today. Unless you want to claim that the drug culture of the 50s and early 60s was, indeed, a "black thing", then there is no way you can claim that the ridiculous move to squelch drug use was aimed at blacks.

I have never understood the drug scene on a gut level, but per capita drug use is a socio-economic phenomena, not limited to race. I never understood how drug use is more prevalent among the poor either. I grew up poorer than most and the last thing I wanted was to diminish my chances of making something of myself by soaking my brain in strange chemicals.

There is, indeed, and inequality in our criminal justice system, but it, too, is socio-economic as opposed to racial. The days where a black accused of a crime was as good as convicted the moment an arrest was made are gone, in the past. Today, it does not matter the color of the skin. But if you are poor and dependent on overworked public defenders, plan on copping to a plea bargain whether you are guilty or not. Holding to one's innocence only works if you have the personal capital to fight the charge with big name lawyers demanding big fees. (And if your defense budget is big enough, you can hold on to innocence even when guilty.)

You question the importance of history and talk about "letting go" when in fact you epitomize exactly why honest conversation about race is important. You validate the need to be more critical and more discerning than you appear to be. I say that with no disrespect, but your perspective on this is not grounded in fact.

The VAST majority of illegal drug users in America are white .. as much as 72%.

According to the most recent NHSDA survey, in 1998 there were an estimated 9.9 million whites (72 percent of all users) and 2.0 million blacks (15 percent) who were current illicit drug users in 1998.81 There were almost five times as many current white marijuana users as black and four times as many white cocaine users. Almost three times as many whites had ever used crack as blacks. Among those who had used crack at least once in the past year, 462,000 were white and 324,000 were black.82 Only among current crack users did the number of blacks exceed the number of whites -- and this was a change from previous years in which the number of current white crack users had exceeded the number of black users (Table 17).83 SAMHSA also estimated that in 1998 there were 4,934,000 whites who used marijuana on 51 or more days in the past year, compared to 1,102,000 blacks, and 321,000 whites who had used cocaine on or more days in the past year compared to 171,999 blacks.

The comparison of racial proportions of drug users and drug arrests in the period 1979 to 1998 reveals a markedly higher arrest rate of black drug offenders compared to both whites and to the black proportion of the drug using population (Table 18). The percentage of current drug users who were black and white did not vary significantly in this twenty-year period. Among those arrested on drug charges, however, the percentage of blacks rose markedly, and the percentage of whites decreased correspondingly. For each year, the percentage of black drug arrests was at least double the percentage of blacks among current drug users. Whites, conversely, were under-arrested; that is, they constituted a smaller percent of drug arrests than they did of drug users.

http://www.hrw.org/reports/2000/usa/Rcedrg00-05.htm

There are some drugs that whites use almost exclusively (meth, pcp, designer). The disparity in arrest and sentencing is well documented and proven.

http://www.sentencingproject.org/IssueAreaHome.aspx?IssueID=3

I could post a 1000 such links to the same information that a discerning critical mind would know before they presumed to dictate to an entire people how fair thing are and how preposterous thinking that racism would play any part in the drug war. The disparities don't only exist in arrests, but also for sentencing .. AND, once in prison many are put to work for major US corporations for about .75 cents an hour doing work that a laid-off or fired worker used to do.

The US is now the greatest prison nation the world has ever known and we incacerate more people by population and percapita than any totalitarian nation we thumb our noses at.

As to blacks holding a more critical view, how do you make that claim when over the past few years you could turn on the news and see masses of people of all races protesting anything from the war in Iraq to the price of gasoline? Are you claiming that the demographics of an average protest crowd would show a higher per-capita involvement of blacks over whites in the area? (I'll bet you it does not.) If you call up news photos of protests around the country there are lots of white faces in those crowds. Usually people involved in a protests are there because they are critical of government.

That discernment is not judged by faces in the crowd. If that were true then one might conclude that whites don't care about black issues because there are few white faces in the crowds against the injustice of the JUST-US system and police brutality.

Without question, African-Americans have been the largest demographic in America against the war and Bush. Their protests did not come in the form of marching .. which is virtually useless today.

Sorry, but I simply do not hold to the "poor victims" view of modern blacks in America. There are still racists out there, without a doubt. I know more than one personally. But by your own statement, we are no longer a racist nation, but rather a nation with racists. And from what I see, a great deal of that racism which still exists comes from minority groups as much if not more than from the whites. (In large part due to holding a grudge for past wrongs that I keep mentioning.)

And if you think my POV is coming from a sheltered white life, guess again. My mother was half black, half Lakota. My father was half Irish, a quarter German and a quarter Lakota. Try that combo on for size growing in the 50s and 60s. Thank God for the U.S Marine Corps.

I've already pointed out the glaring disparities of the US criminal injustice system .. an injustice that is devastating the black community. According to you it's no big deal and we should what .. just bend over and keep taking it?

Should we just be content being sort-of relatively free or should we continue to strive for and demand the very same freedom every American deserves? That relative freedom extends beyond arrests, sentencing, and the drug war .. but that injustice is impossible to deny.

Have things gotten better in America? .. Absolutely. But it didn't get better by ignoring the problems.

Sorry I missed your post or I would have responded sooner.

 

[blackascoal]

The whole question makes one wonder why bac is a thorough statist, when the state he lives in has sought to oppress him over and over again???

BAC is a socialist, and if by statist you mean lover of my country its because I am vested in its progress and future.

 

[Battleborne]

Again, you're a liar .. AND an idiot.

Post #25 was written by a poster called "Good Luck" you idiot, not me.

I've never said anything about my mother at any time, particularly anything that would even remotely suggest she was anything other than black.

Here's a side note for you .. I can find better conversation than you, and I can find honest conversation .. with an adult .. with intelligence.

I stand corrected on post#25...my error...I went back and deleted this...however the rest stands!...as for being a liar and idiot...maybe you should look in the mirror...'Buffalo Soldier'