The End Of Christian America

Dear JPP Reader:

I didn’t realize we had theologians in our midst.

Looking at these citations, what I find interesting is that they group rather easily into several classes. I don’t see that the affirmation of labor is at issue. That – and the call to extend care for weaker members of society – doesn’t appear to me as antithetical.

That said, I have to add that while the recitation of specific texts may have significance for those who study such things, it seems to me that reading the Judeo-Christian narrative as a whole produces something very different.

The Genesis prologue presents the story of two brothers, Cain and Abel. On being confronted by the deity for fratricide, Cain replies, ‘am I my brother’s keeper.’ If you can read the rest of the Genesis story including that of Joseph and his brothers, and still not connect these details, how much insight will you gain however many texts you muster to your side?

Moreover, the Exodus narrative presents a picture of an Egyptian economy which is driven by slave labor – and foreign slaves at that. As conditions deteriorate, more hardship is put on the slave laborers. Entering misery, they begin to cry out in distress. What I find intriguing is that Egypt’s king attributes this crying to laziness [Ex 5:8]. It also strikes me as curious that the earlier narrative shows the deity, presumably Yahweh, as telling Cain, ‘your brother’s blood is “crying” out to me from the ground’ [Ge 4:10].

These are but two texts; yet they function at the heart of a much larger narrative. There are Marxists who contend that these narratives were invented to bring people into bondage to their rulers. I don’t. I think these details preserved from antiquity collective insights that the community believed too important to be lost. And given the emphasis that the Mid Eastern community gives to hospitality to this very day, I have to say that this gives me cause for reflection.

Yes, someone who is called ‘Paul’ said that people must work to eat. So by the way did someone called Marx. But it seems to me that texts cited stand as necessary corollaries to prevent a lopsided reading of the narrative. As for the grand movement OF the narrative ITSELF, that I believe is undoubtedly slanted toward the care of others [especially the weak and oppressed] and the necessity of forsaking unjust systems of exploitation which intentionally subjugate peoples into perpetuity.

Another theme comes to us from antiquity which also gives me cause for reflection. It is the fact that in addition to the practice of hospitality and care of others, we also hear the same interpretation placed over the cries of those who come into misery and hardship. ‘They’re lazy.’ I will leave it for those with greater moral character than I have to explain how it is fine, moral Christians persistently use isolated texts to silence the import of the grand narrative while reciting the very words of Pharaoh, King of Egypt, to those in distress today. ‘They’re lazy; they just don’t want to work.’

http://tinyurl.com/hxmkyn2

IMT
 
Dear JPP Reader:

I didn’t realize we had theologians in our midst.

Looking at these citations, what I find interesting is that they group rather easily into several classes. I don’t see that the affirmation of labor is at issue. That – and the call to extend care for weaker members of society – doesn’t appear to me as antithetical.

That said, I have to add that while the recitation of specific texts may have significance for those who study such things, it seems to me that reading the Judeo-Christian narrative as a whole produces something very different.

The Genesis prologue presents the story of two brothers, Cain and Abel. On being confronted by the deity for fratricide, Cain replies, ‘am I my brother’s keeper.’ If you can read the rest of the Genesis story including that of Joseph and his brothers, and still not connect these details, how much insight will you gain however many texts you muster to your side?

Moreover, the Exodus narrative presents a picture of an Egyptian economy which is driven by slave labor – and foreign slaves at that. As conditions deteriorate, more hardship is put on the slave laborers. Entering misery, they begin to cry out in distress. What I find intriguing is that Egypt’s king attributes this crying to laziness [Ex 5:8]. It also strikes me as curious that the earlier narrative shows the deity, presumably Yahweh, as telling Cain, ‘your brother’s blood is “crying” out to me from the ground’ [Ge 4:10].

These are but two texts; yet they function at the heart of a much larger narrative. There are Marxists who contend that these narratives were invented to bring people into bondage to their rulers. I don’t. I think these details preserved from antiquity collective insights that the community believed too important to be lost. And given the emphasis that the Mid Eastern community gives to hospitality to this very day, I have to say that this gives me cause for reflection.

Yes, someone who is called ‘Paul’ said that people must work to eat. So by the way did someone called Marx. But it seems to me that texts cited stand as necessary corollaries to prevent a lopsided reading of the narrative. As for the grand movement OF the narrative ITSELF, that I believe is undoubtedly slanted toward the care of others [especially the weak and oppressed] and the necessity of forsaking unjust systems of exploitation which intentionally subjugate peoples into perpetuity.

Another theme comes to us from antiquity which also gives me cause for reflection. It is the fact that in addition to the practice of hospitality and care of others, we also hear the same interpretation placed over the cries of those who come into misery and hardship. ‘They’re lazy.’ I will leave it for those with greater moral character than I have to explain how it is fine, moral Christians persistently use isolated texts to silence the import of the grand narrative while reciting the very words of Pharaoh, King of Egypt, to those in distress today. ‘They’re lazy; they just don’t want to work.’

http://tinyurl.com/hxmkyn2

IMT

The fundamental problem with using the government as a means to help the poor and down trodden has less to do with scripture than the fact it denies a very basic human instinct: a man is prone to work only as much as required. Forget scripture, it makes sense from a purely Darwinian view that any animal is only going to expend sufficient energy to sustain itself.

And it's compounded by the nearly flawless effect subsidies have on behavior: reward a lab rat with a free nugget every time he does X, and you can take it to the bank X will be accomplished by the rat. Humans are no different. When the government subsidizes baby production, it WILL produce more babies; same ditto for subsidizing illegal aliens. Promise them free stuff if they can escape their Marxist paradise and get here somehow, and they WILL arrive in hoards.

It's raw instinct and Marxism in all its various manifestations seems oblivious to it. So it is always doomed to fail.
 
Woodstock-with-Guitar-woodstock-peanuts-27452093-225-225.jpg

Does anybody besides me notice that he always sides with the left during all these arguments / discussions?
 
Oh, you're back, are you?

And apparently you're still incapable of reading more than a line or two, or you'd know I put my money, time and effort where my mouth is.

Why do I have some nerve quoting scripture, pray tell? Since I actually follow the tenets laid out above and I'm not even a Christian? Because I used the Bible to say, "Oh, yes, Jesus DID mandate to his disciples that they go out and help the poor" and I'm correct about it?

You're going to have to do a lot better than your pathetic attempts here, I'm afraid. Your rank ignorance isn't just showing, it's kicking its legs up and singing show tunes.

Go back and read what I've said through this entire thread, you obtuse piece of flotsam, then come apologize like a good little puppet.

And hey, would you mind finding something to call me besides, "Marxist"? I'm bored with that, now. I rather liked the Woodstock one. Want to start referring to me with that? That'd be great. I always enjoy a good laugh.

And that's all you're good for, isn't it? A laugh.

Run along now.

You're done.

You're a piece of Marxist trash who had a mommy who kept telling you you were better than everybody else when you were growing up .. and I'll wager daddy was nowhere to be found while she kept telling you that.
 
Oh, you're back, are you?

And apparently you're still incapable of reading more than a line or two, or you'd know I put my money, time and effort where my mouth is.

Why do I have some nerve quoting scripture, pray tell? Since I actually follow the tenets laid out above and I'm not even a Christian? Because I used the Bible to say, "Oh, yes, Jesus DID mandate to his disciples that they go out and help the poor" and I'm correct about it?

You're going to have to do a lot better than your pathetic attempts here, I'm afraid. Your rank ignorance isn't just showing, it's kicking its legs up and singing show tunes.

Go back and read what I've said through this entire thread, you obtuse piece of flotsam, then come apologize like a good little puppet.

And hey, would you mind finding something to call me besides, "Marxist"? I'm bored with that, now. I rather liked the Woodstock one. Want to start referring to me with that? That'd be great. I always enjoy a good laugh.

And that's all you're good for, isn't it? A laugh.

Run along now.

You're done.

Christ preached charity from the heart .. it must begin there. He didn't preach wealth redistribution. According to you, the divine physician that you despise who is always screwing up your plans for a social libertine socialist paradise went to the high priests and appealed for more taxes for the poor.

This is why the tax collector was the most hated individual in town in ancient Judea and why Christ said he was most in need of salvation. There is a story about this in the Bible in fact. The tax collector was a social outcast, nobody liked him. He took money from the poor and made them poorer.

And put a capital B in front of Bible, you cultural Marxist know it all with the over protective mother.
 
You're a piece of Marxist trash who had a mommy who kept telling you you were better than everybody else when you were growing up .. and I'll wager daddy was nowhere to be found while she kept telling you that.

Hmmmmmm. Let's see.

I grew up with parents who were together until the day my father died. My mother was a music teacher, opera soprano and for over 25 years was the choir conductor of her Methodist church. My father was a jeweler and, at temple, a cantor.

They were also both STAUNCH Republicans.

They always taught us that despite the fact we had quite a bit of money we were not better than anyone else, because they believed people are just people.

But in your case I'll make an exception. You are utterly beneath me, worthy only of my contempt and scorn.

Which is why I and others continue to laugh at you.
 
Christ preached charity from the heart .. it must begin there. He didn't preach wealth redistribution. According to you, the divine physician that you despise who is always screwing up your plans for a social libertine socialist paradise went to the high priests and appealed for more taxes for the poor.

What is it with you and automatically assuming anything about anyone?

I'll need you to go and find on this forum statements that I have made which lead you to the conclusion that I am a libertine (especially considering that from your support of Trump and your comments on these forums I have some seriously higher moral standards than you do), socialist, Marxist, or any other particular political association aside from that which I have already stated on this forum (which you will need to find, because I'm not giving it to you - you don't deserve anything but ridicule).

You will also need to provide what plans I have for any kind of paradise, or proof that I have demanded more taxes for the poor. In fact, I think the poor should have LESS taxes (you really should pay attention to how you phrase things, you insignificant toad).

Go on, puppet. Find those two things for us. There's a good little idiot.

This is why the tax collector was the most hated individual in town in ancient Judea and why Christ said he was most in need of salvation. There is a story about this in the Bible in fact. The tax collector was a social outcast, nobody liked him. He took money from the poor and made them poorer.

The tax collector was despised because he came to collect taxes?! SERIOUSLY?! I had NO idea! I thought it was because he walked with a limp! THANK you SO much for pointing out the blindingly obvious! You are TRULY profound unthinker! Idiot.

And put a capital B in front of Bible, you cultural Marxist know it all with the over protective mother.

bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible.

If he has an aneurysm now, do I get credit?

Now get the aspirin out, little toad, to cure the headache you just got, then find me the quotes I told you to find.
 
Dear Darth Hussein Omar:

The fundamental problem with using the government as a means to help the poor and down trodden has less to do with scripture than the fact it denies a very basic human instinct: a man is prone to work only as much as required. Forget scripture, it makes sense from a purely Darwinian view that any animal is only going to expend sufficient energy to sustain itself.

And it's compounded by the nearly flawless effect subsidies have on behavior: reward a lab rat with a free nugget every time he does X, and you can take it to the bank X will be accomplished by the rat. Humans are no different. When the government subsidizes baby production, it WILL produce more babies; same ditto for subsidizing illegal aliens. Promise them free stuff if they can escape their Marxist paradise and get here somehow, and they WILL arrive in hoards.

It's raw instinct and Marxism in all its various manifestations seems oblivious to it. So it is always doomed to fail.

‘The fundamental problem with using the government as a means to help the poor and down trodden’ is that I have no idea what it means. Does ‘helping’ imply direct transfer payments, or does it mean work projects? Or does it mean that government has no role in regulating predatory businesses such as loan-sharking? Does it mean that no action should be taken to protect the poor [or anyone else for that matter] from economic or political attacks on them as a class? Or does it mean that government has no business challenging slumlord prohibition of renter associations? Correspondingly, may it mean that government may legitimately hinder the poor – say by allowing union-busting tactics? Lacking any kind of context, I don’t know what you mean by ‘government helping the poor.’

Is ‘a man is prone to work only as much as required?’ Is this ‘a very basic human instinct?’ Far too many counter examples are available to establish this dictum as a universal rule. Moreover, I’m not sure that we want to succumb to political/economic Darwinism. The animal kingdom to which you refer suggests to me neither democracy nor republic. As I see it, humans and rats are very different, although the supposition that they are the same might explain much of human history for reasons that might be explored in terms of systems of political economy. Of course, I believe that similarly, human migration may also be studied profitably from the perspective of political economy.

I didn’t begin referencing biblical texts and did so only because others were using the text to that end, and I believed that another kind of reflection on the literary text was possible. `

I’m not aware that Marxists offer anything resembling a Judeo-Christian vision of paradise, and I am a Marxist. Nor do I know where genuine socialism has ever been implemented. Out of curiosity, have you read much Marx?

IMT
 
Dear evince:

you people just refuse to accept the cold hard fact that your own lies are killing you

Do you plan to accept the cold, hard fact that class inequality effects life expectancy?

'Life-expectancy is the most basic indicator of social well-being. The minimal increase for low-income workers and the widening disparity between the poor and the rich is a stark commentary on the immense growth of social inequality and class polarization in the United States. It underscores the fact that socioeconomic class is the fundamental category of social life under capitalism—one that conditions every aspect of life, including its length.'

'The Brookings Institution findings shed further light on the catastrophic decline in the social position of the American working class. They follow recent reports showing a sharp rise in death rates for both young and middle-aged white workers, primarily due to drug abuse, alcoholism and suicide. Other recent reports have shown a dramatic decline in life expectancy for poorer middle-aged Americans and a reversal of decades of declining infant mortality.'

'It is no mystery what is behind this vast social retrogression. It is the product of the decay of American capitalism and a four-decade-long offensive by the ruling elite against the working class. From Reagan to the Obama administration, Democrats and Republicans alike have overseen a corporate-government assault on the jobs, wages, pensions and health benefits of working people.'


IMT
 
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What is it with you and automatically assuming anything about anyone?

I'll need you to go and find on this forum statements that I have made which lead you to the conclusion that I am a libertine (especially considering that from your support of Trump and your comments on these forums I have some seriously higher moral standards than you do), socialist, Marxist, or any other particular political association aside from that which I have already stated on this forum (which you will need to find, because I'm not giving it to you - you don't deserve anything but ridicule).

You will also need to provide what plans I have for any kind of paradise, or proof that I have demanded more taxes for the poor. In fact, I think the poor should have LESS taxes (you really should pay attention to how you phrase things, you insignificant toad).

Go on, puppet. Find those two things for us. There's a good little idiot.



The tax collector was despised because he came to collect taxes?! SERIOUSLY?! I had NO idea! I thought it was because he walked with a limp! THANK you SO much for pointing out the blindingly obvious! You are TRULY profound unthinker! Idiot.



bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible, bible.

If he has an aneurysm now, do I get credit?

Now get the aspirin out, little toad, to cure the headache you just got, then find me the quotes I told you to find.

You're quite an authoritarian, aren't you? And you're also an insulting history revisionist.

I didn't attack you first, mamas boy, you attacked me because you hated what the OP said. And your lot aren't as intellectual as you claim to be because leftists like you are always nothing but knee jerk reactionaries.
 
If Jesus didn't preach common ownership, why did the early Church adopt it? Capitalism is the absolute enemy of Christianity, and stands for everything evil.
 
I’m not aware that Marxists offer anything resembling a Judeo-Christian vision of paradise, and I am a Marxist. Nor do I know where genuine socialism has ever been implemented. Out of curiosity, have you read much Marx?

IMT

Well, there's hardly anything paradisiacal about the Purges, Great Leap Forward, or the Killing Fields. :cof1:
 
If Jesus didn't preach common ownership, why did the early Church adopt it? Capitalism is the absolute enemy of Christianity, and stands for everything evil.

Save for the highest standard of living in the developed world that humanity has ever experienced.
 
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