The end of particle physics?

Dutch Uncle said:
Despite some wishful thinking on the part of the religious, how would a "spirit world" vary from the concept of another Universe which is leaking Dark Matter into ours as Cypress mentioned?

The fact is, no one knows if other such planes of existence exist. It's all scientific theory. Only the religious/irreligious that advocate as fact things that have not been proven.

https://www.livescience.com/multiverse
Multiverse theory suggests that our universe, with all its hundreds of billions of galaxies and almost countless stars, spanning tens of billions of light-years, may not be the only one. Instead, there may be an entirely different universe, distantly separated from ours — and another, and another. Indeed, there may be an infinity of universes, all with their own laws of physics, their own collections of stars and galaxies (if stars and galaxies can exist in those universes), and maybe even their own intelligent civilizations.

It could be that our universe is just one member of a much grander, much larger multitude of universes: a multiverse.
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You want go to prove to you that the Spirit World exists, using the physical universe to prove it to you!
Good luck with that!
 
Mr.Mason said:
You want go to prove to you that the Spirit World exists, using the physical universe to prove it to you!
Good luck with that!
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IDK if the Spirit World exists. I did have a NDE which seemed very real and which I could not duplicate. However, anecdotal evidence, like epiphanies, are not evidence. They are experiences. Collecting enough of them from different people lends clues through commonalities.

The hard part is separating the physical from the mental.
 
Mr.Mason said:
You want go to prove to you that the Spirit World exists, using the physical universe to prove it to you!
Good luck with that!
Click to expand...

IMO, the best physical evidence for a purposeful organizing principle underlying the universe is the strangely coincidental fine-tuning of the physical parameters and physical constants of the universe.
 
Cypress said:
IMO, the best physical evidence for a purposeful organizing principle underlying the universe is the strangely coincidental fine-tuning of the physical parameters and physical constants of the universe.
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I think there will be evidence of the "outside" even if only indirectly. The dark matter/dark energy theories are interesting by themselves but better if they are evidence of another universe.

FWIW, I've read a few SF stories plus saw an old Star Trek episode of people living inside a very large spaceship and having forgotten they were on one.

In this conversation it relates to being inside the Universe and, not realizing we are "inside", do not know there is an outside.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
I think there will be evidence of the "outside" even if only indirectly. The dark matter/dark energy theories are interesting by themselves but better if they are evidence of another universe.

FWIW, I've read a few SF stories plus saw an old Star Trek episode of people living inside a very large spaceship and having forgotten they were on one.

In this conversation it relates to being inside the Universe and, not realizing we are "inside", do not know there is an outside.
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I think there are a lot of unsubstantiated ideas which could explain fine tuning.

But the fact is, fine tuning is a measurable and confirmable physical phenomena. Whenever
scientists see that many coincidences, they generally think it means something profound.

The multiverse and eternal inflation have been invoked to explain away fine tuning. But the multiverse and eternal inflation themselves are practically metaphysics, not real science.

I don't know what causes fine tuning, but I think a purposeful organizing event, a multiverse, or eternal inflation are all reasonable guesses, if we lack any other information.
 
Cypress said:
I think there are a lot of unsubstantiated ideas which could explain fine tuning.

But the fact is, fine tuning is a measurable and confirmable physical phenomena. Whenever
scientists see that many coincidences, they generally think it means something profound.

The multiverse and eternal inflation have been invoked to explain away fine tuning. But the multiverse and eternal inflation themselves are practically metaphysics, not real science.

I don't know what causes fine tuning, but I think a purposeful organizing event, a multiverse, or eternal inflation are all reasonable guesses, if we lack any other information.
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Agreed since, by definition, science concerns itself with the material universe. Obviously there's a fuzzy barrier between where science ends and metaphysics begins.

One example is what we discussed earlier: What happened prior to the Big Bang.

sci·ence /ˈsīəns/
the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behaviour of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment.
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Dutch Uncle said:
IDK if the Spirit World exists. I did have a NDE which seemed very real and which I could not duplicate. However, anecdotal evidence, like epiphanies, are not evidence. They are experiences. Collecting enough of them from different people lends clues through commonalities.

The hard part is separating the physical from the mental.
Click to expand...

Mental is part of the physical!
It's separate from the mental and the Spiritual.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Agreed since, by definition, science concerns itself with the material universe. Obviously there's a fuzzy barrier between where science ends and metaphysics begins.

One example is what we discussed earlier: What happened prior to the Big Bang.
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Before the Big Bang there was no physical universe!
So what was there?
 
Mr.Mason said:
I don't believe in coincidental.
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I am just telling you that fine tuning of the cosmos is the best physical data religious people could point too. Forget about the Creation Science Museum.

Scientists don't believe in coincidences either. Once you start seeing to many coincidences piling up, it is worth investigation.
 
Cypress said:
I am just telling you that fine tuning of the cosmos is the best physical data religious people could point too. Forget about the Creation Science Museum.

Scientists don't believe in coincidences either. Once you start seeing to many coincidences piling up, it is worth investigation.
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That I agree with!
 
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