The Left and One Party Rule

[apple0154]

Now The Dude is groaning over the fact that Apple just showed he's nothing more then someone who wants to make a profit, at the expense of others.

Check out post #180. I'm sure the Dude groaned you due to your complete misunderstanding of how things work.

 

[apple0154]

Aahhh the tyranny of the majority? What about the minority that doesn't want it? Time was a majority of you democrats thought the blacks were less than human and codified it into law. You even had science to back you up.

I am tired of paying the price for democrat stupidity

You make a good point but then end up posting a stupid remark. It's unfortunate.

Government health care has been proven in dozens of nations. There is not one country with a national health care policy where the citizens want it eliminated. There isn't even any prominent poilticians campaigning on such nonsense.

The savings. The support of the citizens. Not on country has reverted to a "pay or suffer" system and every country started out with such a system. There is nothing to discuss.

 

[The Dude]

So you can tax them back into poverty?

Angry little Brit, you are probably a tax bill from poverty!

 

[007]

You make a good point but then end up posting a stupid remark. It's unfortunate.

Government health care has been proven in dozens of nations. There is not one country with a national health care policy where the citizens want it eliminated. There isn't even any prominent poilticians campaigning on such nonsense.

The savings. The support of the citizens. Not on country has reverted to a "pay or suffer" system and every country started out with such a system. There is nothing to discuss.

None want it eliminated but, WHAT IS THE BIGGEST COMPLAINT THAT PEOPLE IN TOTALITARIAN NATIONS HAVE?

Would it possibly be how crap their healthcare is?
The lack of choice?
The immense waiting lists?

The slow drudgery of a mediocre existence just above the breadline, the 65%+ taxation the sheer misery of life in those totalitarian countries.
Many of whom consider it a serious and organised crime to criticise the government.

 

[007]

Angry little Brit, you are probably a tax bill from poverty!

Not in the slightest, you want me to make a complete fool of you again by showing your dishonesty?

Many are suffering obamas tax hikes.
Particulary the Rich on minimum wage( Obama did say he would only raise taxes on the rich, didnt he)?

What a fucking liar!

 

[apple0154]

Again I’ll remind you that Canada is not the western world’s designated protector of one world peace and tranquility, nor a military power expected,(by right and left), to out-spend all tyrannical governments on military defense and police the globe and declare and conduct all wars therewith. Nor does Canada have a constitutional mandate awarding its social programming to 50 individual States and forbidding it’s federal government from creating such folly, or does Canada need to worry about its citizens getting critical healthcare operations since they can simply cross the United States border and buy it on the open market with little to no waiting period. I’ll also remind you that Canada doesn’t have to worry much or spend anything to protect its southern border in the insane federal Drug War. I’ll also remind you that Canada has no problem recovering its natural resources such as oil sands and selling them on the open market even to China who it seems will be rewarded with Canadian oil that the leftist American President and leftist environmental lobby rejects for America.

Therefore I submit that Canada can well afford the folly of socialized healthcare. For America its simply more badly spent money chasing too much already badly spent money, not to mention its unconstitutionality.



Oh yes! I’ll surely argue that our founders, (most of them), thought the greatest objective of humankind was freedom and limited government and sure as hell not the extortion, corruption and government malpractice of socialized tyranny.



They gave us the constitutional provision to promote the sciences. (Article One, Section Eight)



So a President boastfully submits he will intentionally violate the Constitution and its principles that the greatest nation on earth was founded on and the uninformed thoughtless majority buys the bribery and that’s fine and dandy by you?

Then by what guarantee do you submit that this President or any other President or Congress or Judiciary won’t simply ignore our constitutional guarantees relative to every other freedom and right?

Why would anybody oppose the founder’s constitutional construction that gives the power of social order and programming to the States and grant it by ignorance and bribery to a bloated incompetent federal government? Why would anybody be OK with federal violations of their only written guarantees of life, liberty, property and the pursuit of happiness?

Every country has seen a savings after implementing national health care. Every statistic has shown the cost to be less per person in actual dollars and as a precentage of GDP. Furthermore, the vast majority of citizens support their respective plans. Of all government plans I can't think of any that garners such wide spread support in so many varied nations.

As for Canadians crossing the border statistics show an equal or greater longevity in countries with a national health care policy. Countries that don't share a border with the US. Furthermore, the number of Canadians who do seek medical attention in the US is negligible.

As for the US being the world's policeman, as the old saying goes, charity begins at home. Protecting weaker countries may be noble and moral and the right thing to do but so is looking after the citizens here.

Lastly, warfare is becoming more efficient. It's like when McCain was arguing with Obama about fewer war ships. Of course there are fewer ships as there are more planes.

Drones will eliminate a large number of soldiers and I think that's excellent. If drones result in greater collateral damage maybe there will be less involvement in other countries unless it's an all out war. This idea of helping rebels here and there is a waste of money, military goods and US soldier's lives. Maybe people will start demanding it's "either you're in or you're out" rather than involvement all around the world.

Choices will have to be made and the choice made in countries with a national health car plan is maintain the plan and cut elsewhere and that is/was the purpose of ObamaCare. It is a law. It is now an obligation of government. The common sense thing to do now is to make it a true one payer system. It takes time as people have invested/set up businesses in medical offices and equipment maunfacturing, etc. so that has to be taken into consideration but a clear directive given that the government is headed towards such a system needs to be established. In other words don't invest in the medical field if your intention is to get rich quick. It ain't gonna happen. Don't expect to work for a health care provider and fly on private jets. Those jobs are going to disappear.

Both parties have to get togther and lay out a path towards a one payer system so everyone knows where they're headed. The bickering and obstruction and court cases and all the other nonsense has to be put to rest. It can be done just as dozens of other countries have succeeded. All this talk about doctors quitting or leaving the country is trash talk just like we hear celebrities before elections.

The government needs to produce public awareness ADS regarding nationalized health care. Put the statistics on the TV screen. Is it any wonder there is opposition to a national health care plan when idiots like Palin talk about death panels? Do logical people really believe the citizens in the dozens of countries with health care plans support death panels?

The government needs to confront those who deliberately lie and challenge them to a public debate. Call them out. Back up your lies or STFU. (Not you. I mean those like Palin.) Publically humiliate them if that's what it takes.

In any case ObamaCare did pass. To paraphrase Neil Armstrong, "That's one small step for a man (Obama), one giant leap for US citizens."

 

[apple0154]

Angry little Brit, you are probably a tax bill from poverty!

I think you nailed that one :lol:

 

[007]

I think you nailed that one :lol:

My taxes are up to date.
I have a recession proof source of income.
The only threat to my income is government action.
But the constitution protects my buisness.

 

[007]

I think you nailed that one :lol:

I see you completely ignored the post about what people complain about most in totalitarian countries with socialised healthcare.
Preferring instead to hurl abuse in the manner of the obamacult.
Your dogma is indefensible so you abuse, insult and threaten those who question it!

 

[apple0154]

None want it eliminated but, WHAT IS THE BIGGEST COMPLAINT THAT PEOPLE IN TOTALITARIAN NATIONS HAVE?

Would it possibly be how crap their healthcare is?
The lack of choice?
The immense waiting lists?

The slow drudgery of a mediocre existence just above the breadline, the 65%+ taxation the sheer misery of life in those totalitarian countries.
Many of whom consider it a serious and organised crime to criticise the government.

What countries are you talking about? I experienced nationalized health care up close and personal. After a fractured spine and a number of other injuries I walked out of the hospital 3 months later. No charge. Never even saw a bill. I have a family doctor I see every 3 months. No charge. No bill. When my doctor requires tests I have a choice between 3 hospitals. A Catholic hospital, a Jewish hospital and the General Hospital. I'm not Jewish but I prefer the Jewish hospital because their coffee shop has pastries you'd die for! Nothing beats a pastry and coffee while reading the newspaper. Ahhh, the drudgery of waitng. I can handle it.

 

[007]

What countries are you talking about? I experienced nationalized health care up close and personal. After a fractured spine and a number of other injuries I walked out of the hospital 3 months later. No charge. Never even saw a bill. I have a family doctor I see every 3 months. No charge. No bill. When my doctor requires tests I have a choice between 3 hospitals. A Catholic hospital, a Jewish hospital and the General Hospital. I'm not Jewish but I prefer the Jewish hospital because their coffee shop has pastries you'd die for! Nothing beats a pastry and coffee while reading the newspaper. Ahhh, the drudgery of waitng. I can handle it.

I too spent time receiving treatment, I had a choice of dozens of hospitals, dozens of specialists and even the ability to choose one hospital for treatment and a specialist from another to plan and implement treatment.

I saw a bill, my insurance paid it.
There was no wait, I told the hospital when I would be available, they made that time free for me.
The way it should be paying customers first.

Since Obamacare there have been "door fees" at ERs apparently, up to 1500 bucks which can only be charged to people with private insurance!
I remember nearly bleeding out in an ER in Huddersfield back in 2002.
The surgeons fucked up a simple procedure, it went to rat shit, I bled for ages, even applied a tourniquet to stem the blessing in the ER waiting room.
I saw 5 nurses sat on couches eating pizza in a staff room.
They sat their chowing, chatting and watching tv for two hours.
I paid there too but got shit in return!

 

[apple0154]

I too spent time receiving treatment, I had a choice of dozens of hospitals, dozens of specialists and even the ability to choose one hospital for treatment and a specialist from another to plan and implement treatment.

I saw a bill, my insurance paid it.
There was no wait, I told the hospital when I would be available, they made that time free for me.
The way it should be paying customers first.

Since Obamacare there have been "door fees" at ERs apparently, up to 1500 bucks which can only be charged to people with private insurance!

So, if you can afford it dig in your pocket and pay it and quit bitching about it.

 

[007]

So, if you can afford it dig in your pocket and pay it and quit bitching about it.

I do pay for it.
As I did in the UK.
Difference here is that paying customers go first, spongers get in line.
As is only right and proper.

I worked hard to get where I am.
Doing what others would not.
I earned the front of the line.

 

[Boris The Animal]

The other part of the problem with government run healthcare is there are never any new innovations in treatment, nor any new R&D.

 

[USFREEDOM911]

Thank-you for the compliment and for asking a good question. The reason I did not sell them for the original price was because the person who bought the building(s) obviously could afford them meaning they had plenty of money. (I couldn't afford to buy them for what I sold them for.) So, the buyers gave me their money and I gave a portion of their/my money to the governemnt so other people could get medical care.

See how it works? Everyone is happy.

What you mean by "works", is that you made a profit without working for it and yet this is what you rail against.

Congratulations Apple; you're a Capitalist.
Embrace your 1%.

 

[USFREEDOM911]

Check out post #180. I'm sure the Dude groaned you due to your complete misunderstanding of how things work.

I know that with your new found Capitalism, that you find the need to protect those under you; but in this case, you're in error.
The Dude groans when he's uncomfortable, or excited, and that's why he gets the oportunity to groan eithe way, when it comes to Howey.

 

[USFREEDOM911]

Apples constant reference to no country giving up their "one payer system" is like saying that no child refuses free cand. Ie: Tell a child that they can have all the candy they want, for Breakfast, Lunch, and Supper; then after this has been going on for a while, ask them if they now want Brussel Sprouts instead.

 

[Robo]

Every country has seen a savings after implementing national health care. Every statistic has shown the cost to be less per person in actual dollars and as a precentage of GDP. Furthermore, the vast majority of citizens support their respective plans. Of all government plans I can't think of any that garners such wide spread support in so many varied nations.

To begin with, Obamacare isn’t socialized medicine in the same traditions as other nations with socialized medicine and I repeat, there’s no constitutional authority for the federal government in America to operate any kind of healthcare program. Aside from that all I can say relative to the government saving money with Obamacare or any other type of federal government healthcare program is ”That will be the day!” History makes it perfectly clear our federal government has never created a program that wasn’t at least 10 times more costly than its initial projected cost and or the program makes a b-line toward bankruptcy.

As for Canadians crossing the border statistics show an equal or greater longevity in countries with a national health care policy. Countries that don't share a border with the US. Furthermore, the number of Canadians who do seek medical attention in the US is negligible.

Leftist talking points for sure. I’ve talked to folks from the UK who say the healthcare system there is expensive, the folks are highly taxed to support it, critical operations are often sent to India because there aren’t enough doctors or hospital facilities to handle the operations, the hospitals are poorly staffed and most are even filthy and in no way meet the standards of American healtrhcare and American hospitals.

As for the US being the world's policeman, as the old saying goes, charity begins at home. Protecting weaker countries may be noble and moral and the right thing to do but so is looking after the citizens here.

The citizens of America are guaranteed by our Constitution equal opportunity not equal economy supported by the collective. I repeat “The powers not delegated to the United States, (federal government), nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.” If you want government to take care of the people, then you should support STATE welfare programs and oppose the federal government’s violations of our Constitution or at least demand that an amendment be passed to our Constitution authorizing the federal government to create and finance its social programs and corporate subsidies, because they’re unconstitutional.

We are not all equal! We’re not all equally beautiful, or equally smart, or equally ambitious or equally industrious or humorous. There’s no constitutional right or God given inalienable right to be anything equal about us except our right to equal opportunity.

Lastly, warfare is becoming more efficient. It's like when McCain was arguing with Obama about fewer war ships. Of course there are fewer ships as there are more planes.

That wasn’t McCain, it was Romney. Efficiency is technology and technology is expensive . Every year we spend more on the Military Industrial Complex that Eisenhower warned us about and we ignored.

Drones will eliminate a large number of soldiers and I think that's excellent. If drones result in greater collateral damage maybe there will be less involvement in other countries unless it's an all out war. This idea of helping rebels here and there is a waste of money, military goods and US soldier's lives. Maybe people will start demanding it's "either you're in or you're out" rather than involvement all around the world.

No war was ever won from the air without boots on the ground. Only nuclear weapons have that capability and since we are not the sole owner thereof anymore, nobody can win a nuclear war.

Choices will have to be made and the choice made in countries with a national health car plan is maintain the plan and cut elsewhere and that is/was the purpose of ObamaCare. It is a law.

Its unconstitutional law the proof thereof is in the Constitution irrespective of what the partisan ideologues on the Court have said.

It is now an obligation of government. The common sense thing to do now is to make it a true one payer system. It takes time as people have invested/set up businesses in medical offices and equipment maunfacturing, etc. so that has to be taken into consideration but a clear directive given that the government is headed towards such a system needs to be established. In other words don't invest in the medical field if your intention is to get rich quick. It ain't gonna happen. Don't expect to work for a health care provider and fly on private jets. Those jobs are going to disappear.

Disappear right along with the doctors and credible hospitals which we’re already short on and Obamacare provides no financial incentive for anybody to become a doctor or establish a hospital. The major incentive of Obamacare is opportunity for insurance companies to rip off the government even more than it already does. When government can mandate insurance, insurance company profits skyrocket and the CEO thereof make billions and fly private jets regularly even on lavish vacations.

 

[zappasguitar]

Apples constant reference to no country giving up their "one payer system" is like saying that no child refuses free cand. Ie: Tell a child that they can have all the candy they want, for Breakfast, Lunch, and Supper; then after this has been going on for a while, ask them if they now want Brussel Sprouts instead.

It's nothing less than typical American arrogance to equate countries utilizing the one payer system with little children unable to make rational decisions.

Unfortunately it's precisely what we've come to expect from those who don't care about the health and welfare of the poor.

 

[apple0154]

I do pay for it.
As I did in the UK.
Difference here is that paying customers go first, spongers get in line.
As is only right and proper.

I worked hard to get where I am.
Doing what others would not.
I earned the front of the line.

Of course you worked hard. And scrimped and saved and struggled and did without and sacrificed and......You're a real martyr.