The meaning of life - from world intellectual traditions

Phantasmal said:
No, self indulgence isn’t Stoic, lack of self restraint isn’t Stoic,
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Have you ever read the quotes of the Roman stoic philosopher-emperor Marcus Aurelius?

To me, just reading some of his quotes gives one a pretty good sense of the direction stoicism takes: self-control, discipline, the cultivation of civic virtue, logic and reason.

I think that highlights why the echoes of stoicism can be seen through much of western history
 
The big concern is spending so much energy attempting to ascertain the meaning of life
that we neglect to actually live it.
 
NiftyNiblick said:
The big concern is spending so much energy attempting to ascertain the meaning of life
that we neglect to actually live it.
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Something to be said for Confucius:

He didn't bother himself with esoteric questions about transcendence, spirituality, aesthetics. The questions he asked were how to live a life of integrity with and among others.
 
BidenPresident said:
By "live it" do you mean acting on our instincts and never deliberating?
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No.

By living it, I mean going out for Chinese,
taking in a ball game,
playing a round of golf,
contributing a little money to the Nevada economy at the tables in Vegas,
catching a Broadway show,
and just experiencing a few of the good things that living a mostly difficult human life can offer.

A measure of deliberation is suggested.

Spending months in Nepal meditating with the elders isn't required.
 
NiftyNiblick said:
No.

By living it, I mean going out for Chinese,
taking in a ball game,
playing a round of golf,
contributing a little money to the Nevada economy at the table in Vegas,
catching a Broadway show,
and just experiencing a few of the good things that living a mostly difficult human life can offer.

A measure of deliberation is suggested.

Spending months in Nepal meditating with the elders isn't required.
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All of that sounds boring.
 
Phantasmal said:
You said everything is Stoic, I showed you two things which aren’t Stoic.

Hedonism
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My understanding also is that Epicureanism advocates a kind of detachment and withdrawal from civic engagement, to commit to life more focused on the individual concerns.

The Stoics definitely saw a need for a more outward-directed life, a disciplined commitment to civic engagement and cultivation of public virtue.
 
BidenPresident said:
Never heard of a Zen Buddhist calling his practice a religion.
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A fair point. What is the difference between a "philosophy" like Zen Buddhism and a "religion" like Quakers?

Isn't Zen Buddhism dictating that the only way to the perfection of personhood is za-zen an example of authoritarianism? Cannot a person meditate floating in a swimming pool? An isolation chamber? Jogging? Rowing?

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/japanese-zen/
Zen aims at the perfection of personhood. To this end, sitting meditation called “za-zen” is employed as a foundational method of prāxis across the different schools of this Buddha-Way—which is not an ideology, but a way of living. Through za-zen the Zen practitioner attempts to embody non-discriminatory wisdom vis-à-vis the meditational experience known as “satori” (enlightenment). A process of discovering wisdom culminates, among other things, in the experiential apprehension of the equality of all thing-events.
 
BidenPresident said:
Never heard of a Zen Buddhist calling his practice a religion.
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We are speaking English here. It is understood that there are variations in meaning between English, Hindi, or Japanese words describing a spiritual practice.

In English language lexicon, Buddhism is almost universally considered a world religion.

religious (Merriam Webster)

1: relating to or manifesting faithful devotion to an acknowledged ultimate reality or deity
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Dutch Uncle said:
A fair point. What is the difference between a "philosophy" like Zen Buddhism and a "religion" like Quakers?

Isn't Zen Buddhism dictating that the only way to the perfection of personhood is za-zen an example of authoritarianism
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Never heard a Zen Buddhist say there was only one way to enlightenment.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
A fair point. What is the difference between a "philosophy" like Zen Buddhism and a "religion" like Quakers?

Isn't Zen Buddhism dictating that the only way to the perfection of personhood is za-zen an example of authoritarianism? Cannot a person meditate floating in a swimming pool? An isolation chamber? Jogging? Rowing?

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/japanese-zen/
Zen aims at the perfection of personhood. To this end, sitting meditation called “za-zen” is employed as a foundational method of prāxis across the different schools of this Buddha-Way—which is not an ideology, but a way of living. Through za-zen the Zen practitioner attempts to embody non-discriminatory wisdom vis-à-vis the meditational experience known as “satori” (enlightenment). A process of discovering wisdom culminates, among other things, in the experiential apprehension of the equality of all thing-events.
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Buddhism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Sikhs, Jews, Native American animists all are devoted in practice and ritual to the notion of a higher ultimate reality, and they are all therefore religions by the standards of English-language lexicon.
 
Cypress said:
Buddhism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Sikhs, Jews, Native American animists all are devoted in practice and ritual to the notion of a higher ultimate reality, and they are all therefore religions by the standards of English-language lexicon.
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Agreed. All recognize that there are many paths to the mountaintop while also recommending ascending that mountain to the top.

Atheists, at least the militan assholish ones akin to televangelists, say "there is no mountain" simply because they can't see it much less the top. They often shout "Prove there is a mountaintop before you try going there!" I ignore them as self-blinded by stupidity.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Agreed. All recognize that there are many paths to the mountaintop while also recommending ascending that mountain to the top.

Atheists, at least the militan assholish ones akin to televangelists, say "there is no mountain" simply because they can't see it much less the top. They often shout "Prove there is a mountaintop before you try going there!" I ignore them as self-blinded by stupidity.
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I think even the thoughtful and contemplative atheists (aka, Friedrich Nietzsche) have some good insights on living a meaningful life.

Pluralism is real strength of USA.

Concur the ones you have to watch out for are the dogmatic types. Religious fundamentalists and the militant atheism of the communist bloc.
 
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