The OT: how did the "old laws" become obsolete?

[BartenderElite]

I'm not a Bible scholar, at all. I have read the Bible. The OT reads like the document that it is - something written by ancient, rather primitive and superstitious people. And clearly, the God of the OT bears little to no resemblance to the God of the NT.

Leviticus comes up a lot because of LGBTQ, but can anyone explain to me why some Christians adhere to both the OT and NT, and some just the NT? And I think I've heard that some of the "old laws" were abolished or something, at some point?

I just don't get it. I believe God is a timeless being - at least 13 billion years old, and likely much older than that. He changed his mind and personality over the course of a few thousand years?

 

[BidenPresident]

I'm not a Bible scholar, at all. I have read the Bible. The OT reads like the document that it is - something written by ancient, rather primitive and superstitious people. And clearly, the God of the OT bears little to no resemblance to the God of the NT.

Leviticus comes up a lot because of LGBTQ, but can anyone explain to me why some Christians adhere to both the OT and NT, and some just the NT? And I think I've heard that some of the "old laws" were abolished or something, at some point?

I just don't get it. I believe God is a timeless being - at least 13 billion years old, and likely much older than that. He changed his mind and personality over the course of a few thousand years?

For me, this is the question. Why should I care about what ancient Jews on another continent believed.

 

[NiftyNiblick]

The "old laws" were obsolete before they were ever committed to paper.

One has to be willing to suspend both logic and reason to be religious.
That's one's prerogative, but don't let any of them anywhere near the laws of the land.

 

[BartenderElite]

The "old laws" were obsolete before they were ever committed to paper.

One has to be willing to suspend both logic and reason to be religious.
That's one's prerogative, but don't let any of them anywhere near the laws of the land.

We've gotta move on at some point.

This thread came about because someone mentioned God's "dietary laws" on another thread. I'm like, really? An incomprehensible being who knows everything there is to know and who has been around for billions of years, if not forever, cares that we skip meat on Fridays or have some rules around pork and shellfish?

Really?

 

[BidenPresident]

We've gotta move on at some point.

This thread came about because someone mentioned God's "dietary laws" on another thread. I'm like, really? An incomprehensible being who knows everything there is to know and who has been around for billions of years, if not forever, cares that we skip meat on Fridays or have some rules around pork and shellfish?

Really?

You're saying that God did not help the Super Bowl winner?

 

[BartenderElite]

You're saying that God did not help the Super Bowl winner?

Ha! I mean, that stuff really does illustrate some of the absurdity of religion.

I guess if an athlete wants to imply that his faith in God helped him believe in himself or something. But to thank God for a win? Not likely.

 

[IBDaMann]

I'm not a Bible scholar, at all. I have read the Bible.

Reading a Bible is what makes one a Bible scholar (for that version). If you have read the Bible and understand what you read, then you can call yourself a Bible scholar.

I'm a Bible scholar too. I guess we're colleagues.

The OT reads like the document that it is - something written by ancient, rather primitive and superstitious people. And clearly, the God of the OT bears little to no resemblance to the God of the NT.

What did God do in the New Testament? What are you using for a comparison?

Leviticus comes up a lot because of LGBTQ

Aside from the one reference that gay man sex is an abomination, there doesn't seem to be any other anti-LGBTQIAPPIOSLSPIMEVASPR+. Yes, there is a lot about not "fornicating" and not "whoring" but that's not anti-LGBTQIAPPIOSLSPIMEVASPR+.

but can anyone explain to me why some Christians adhere to both the OT and NT,

Oh, pick me! Pick me!

Answer: Because Jesus specifies such at the Sermon on the Mount!

Yesssss. What do I win? I knew that being a Bible scholar would come in handy.

And I think I've heard that some of the "old laws" were abolished or something, at some point?

Nope. It's all in the Sermon on the Mount. Allow me to quote Jesus:

Matthew 5:
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

[God] changed his mind and personality over the course of a few thousand years?

You keep saying this. Please show me. I'm intrigued.

 

[Hawkeye10]

Reading a Bible is what makes one a Bible scholar (for that version). If you have read the Bible and understand what you read, then you can call yourself a Bible scholar.

I'm a Bible scholar too. I guess we're colleagues.


What did God do in the New Testament? What are you using for a comparison?


Aside from the one reference that gay man sex is an abomination, there doesn't seem to be any other anti-LGBTQIAPPIOSLSPIMEVASPR+. Yes, there is a lot about not "fornicating" and not "whoring" but that's not anti-LGBTQIAPPIOSLSPIMEVASPR+.


Oh, pick me! Pick me!

Answer: Because Jesus specifies such at the Sermon on the Mount!

Yesssss. What do I win? I knew that being a Bible scholar would come in handy.


Nope. It's all in the Sermon on the Mount. Allow me to quote Jesus:




You keep saying this. Please show me. I'm intrigued.

Your sig is much better.

Thank U!

 

[saltydancin]

The "old laws" were obsolete before they were ever committed to paper.

One has to be willing to suspend both logic and reason to be religious.
That's one's prerogative, but don't let any of them anywhere near the laws of the land.

Seems like this Christian Nation SCOTUS interpretation of "one nation under God with equal justice under law" where thieving US Constitution Bill of Rights arsonists are granted standing to prey as Christiananality pedophilia for an Islamidiotocracy thereby thieving old glory - old testament arsonists are the law of the land.....

 

[ZenMode]

I'm not a Bible scholar, at all. I have read the Bible. The OT reads like the document that it is - something written by ancient, rather primitive and superstitious people. And clearly, the God of the OT bears little to no resemblance to the God of the NT.

Leviticus comes up a lot because of LGBTQ, but can anyone explain to me why some Christians adhere to both the OT and NT, and some just the NT? And I think I've heard that some of the "old laws" were abolished or something, at some point?

I just don't get it. I believe God is a timeless being - at least 13 billion years old, and likely much older than that. He changed his mind and personality over the course of a few thousand years?

Many Christians still believe that the old laws should still be enforced based on Matthew:

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."

But, in reality, it's much more likely that old laws became untenable by evolving views of morality and civility.

 

[Cypress]

I'm not a Bible scholar, at all. I have read the Bible. The OT reads like the document that it is - something written by ancient, rather primitive and superstitious people. And clearly, the God of the OT bears little to no resemblance to the God of the NT.

Leviticus comes up a lot because of LGBTQ, but can anyone explain to me why some Christians adhere to both the OT and NT, and some just the NT? And I think I've heard that some of the "old laws" were abolished or something, at some point?

I just don't get it. I believe God is a timeless being - at least 13 billion years old, and likely much older than that. He changed his mind and personality over the course of a few thousand years?

The Torah is based on stories that probably dates to well before 1200 BCE.

The 27 books of the New Testament date to the first and second centuries CE. You're talking about an almost fifteen hundred to two thousand year difference.

When Paul was converting the gentiles, it was at a time when the early christians were still a Jewish sect. The question was whether gentiles could become Christians without following the Jewish law.

Paul said that gentiles can be Christians without being beholden to the Jewish law. There was never any requirements for Christian gentiles to follow the ritual law of Leviticus or elsewhere in Torah.

For that matter, modern Reform Judaism doesn't consider themselves beholden to the ritual laws of Torah. Reform Judaism is much more focused on the ethical teachings of the prophets.

 

[BidenPresident]

Many Christians still believe that the old laws should still be enforced based on Matthew:

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."

But, in reality, it's much more likely that old laws became untenable by evolving views of morality and civility.

Yes, often said he was fulfilling the old testament.

 

[Tinkerpeach]

God chose the Jews to be His representatives on earth, to lead by example and to demonstrate His glory by saving them countless times.

Because of that He specifically heave them a set of laws which were to be followed but only applied to these laws and the subset rewards they received for following them it was Gods method to bring others to follow Him



Through the strict adherence to these laws and and the rewards the Jews received from following them was the method God chose to spread His word and bring followers to Him

Now the important thing here is the old laws were a set form of specific religious practices the Jews were to follow such as their diets or observing the sabbath

The majority of Hods commandments in the OT are general things that God wants everyone to follow

Leviticus was not a Jewish law, it applies to every then and now so when Jesus came He only removed those laws which were specific to the Jews, everything else in the OT remains the same

 

[Cypress]

The "old laws" were obsolete before they were ever committed to paper.

One has to be willing to suspend both logic and reason to be religious.
That's one's prerogative, but don't let any of them anywhere near the laws of the land.

Jimmy Carter and Roslyn Carter, Barack and Michelle Obama, Joe and Jill Biden are practicing Christians and they don't strike me as stupid or foolish

 

[NiftyNiblick]

Jimmy Carter and Roslyn Carter, Barack and Michelle Obama, Joe and Jill Biden are practicing Christians and they don't strike me as stupid or foolish

It's still socially convenient to accept the trappings of religion,
but do these very smart people really have religious faith?

I doubt it, but I could of course be wrong.

To me, if you open your eyes in the morning,
you see instantly that you're not in a world
created by a god who's both omnipotent and all-loving.

In the end, it's something that simple that determined my position on the subject.

 

[Tinkerpeach]

Jimmy Carter and Roslyn Carter, Barack and Michelle Obama, Joe and Jill Biden are practicing Christians and they don't strike me as stupid or foolish

Christians are defined by their actions, not their claims

 

[Tinkerpeach]

It's still socially convenient to accept the trappings of religion,
but do these very smart people really have religious faith?

I doubt it, but I could of course be wrong.

To me, if you open your eyes in the morning,
you see instantly that you're not in a world
created by a god who's both omnipotent and all-loving.

In the end, it's something that simple that determined my position on the subject.

Heaven isn’t meant for everyone

 

[ptif219]

I'm not a Bible scholar, at all. I have read the Bible. The OT reads like the document that it is - something written by ancient, rather primitive and superstitious people. And clearly, the God of the OT bears little to no resemblance to the God of the NT.

Leviticus comes up a lot because of LGBTQ, but can anyone explain to me why some Christians adhere to both the OT and NT, and some just the NT? And I think I've heard that some of the "old laws" were abolished or something, at some point?

I just don't get it. I believe God is a timeless being - at least 13 billion years old, and likely much older than that. He changed his mind and personality over the course of a few thousand years?

Jesus replaced much of the law. But what was sin in the old Testament still is sin But the Blood of Jesus gives you forgiveness for sin if you repent. Homosexuality is still sin. Saying God made a mistake with your gender is also sin

 

[BidenPresident]

Jesus replaced much of the law. But what was sin in the old Testament still is sin But the Blood of Jesus gives you forgiveness for sin if you repent. Homosexuality is still sin. Saying God made a mistake with your gender is also sin

So, anything I disagree with you about is a sin. Your word is God's word.

 

[ptif219]

Many Christians still believe that the old laws should still be enforced based on Matthew:

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."

But, in reality, it's much more likely that old laws became untenable by evolving views of morality and civility.

In the Old Testament Homosexuality was punishable by death. Now through the Blood of Jesus you can be forgiven for that sin if you repent