The Power of Prayer

Commander Dutch said:
Excuse me, but you are looking through the wrong end of the telescope, sir. The "thoughts and prayers" are, like funerals, for the living. The dead are past caring.

That said, the power of positive thinking has been proved to work. Nothing magical about it. "Prayer" is simply a ritualistic means of providing positive thinking. In the case of the death of a loved one, it's a way providing positive support for those grieving.



8tywy0.jpg
Click to expand...
As I said earlier, prayer is great for the person praying. It gives them all sorts of warm fuzzies.

The power of positive thinking prayer is no different than a type of meditation. And there’s no doubt in the efficacy of that.

That’s not the type of prayer I refer to. Reference the millions of prayers for Terry Schiavo. The prayers said in Ukraine. In Gaza.
 
domer76 said:
PMP is a liar. That’s a sin. And one that he repeats almost with every post.
Click to expand...
Agreed it's a sin if he knows it's a lie, but is it lying if the voices in his head tell him it's true?

Also agreed that he's a broken record of complaints, vocabulary and "sins".
 
domer76 said:
As I said earlier, prayer is great for the person praying. It gives them all sorts of warm fuzzies.

The power of positive thinking prayer is no different than a type of meditation. And there’s no doubt in the efficacy of that.

That’s not the type of prayer I refer to. Reference the millions of prayers for Terry Schiavo. The prayers said in Ukraine. In Gaza.
Click to expand...
Warm fuzzies makes it sound like a little girl with a new magic pony doll. The power of positive thinking versus negative thinking (or "no thinking") results can be measured. Does it matter if it's simply faith in oneself, one's education and fellow workers or if it's a sky daddy? Don't results count? Why do you care how they get from Point A to Point B in life?

Okey dokey. So what? Again, why do you care what millions of people pray for? As for Schiavo, she was brain dead. The humane thing to do was to let her go. Did she leave a living will?

www.verywellmind.com

The Power of Positive Thinking

Learn about the psychology behind the power of positive thinking and how a positive outlook can help you cope with stress and improve well-being.
www.verywellmind.com www.verywellmind.com
Positive thinking is linked to a wide range of health benefits, including:
  • Better stress management and coping skills
  • Enhanced psychological health
  • Greater resistance to the common cold
  • Increased physical well-being
  • Longer life span
  • Lower rates of depression
  • Reduced risk of cardiovascular disease-related death
 
Cypress said:
I've known hundreds of doctors over 50 years, and I went to a university with one of the best medical schools in the country. I never heard any doctor or med student say they were researching the medical benefit of prayer, meditation, hope, and the power of positive thinking.

To the extent research like that exists, it is undoubtedly insignificant and even fringe compared to all the conventional research on oncology, epidemiology, genetics, pharmaceuticals, etc.
Click to expand...
Cypress, the only reasonable reply to Obtenebrator is:

Pot...meet kettle. Please note you are both black.

Ob personally attacks posters more than anyone else in this forum...and complains about personal attacks more than anyone else.

Hell of a combo.
 
Ross Dolan said:
Cypress, the only reasonable reply to Obtenebrator is:

Pot...meet kettle. Please note you are both black.

Ob personally attacks posters more than anyone else in this forum...and complains about personal attacks more than anyone else.

Hell of a combo.
Click to expand...
Obtenebrator is mentally ill.
 
Commander Dutch said:
Warm fuzzies makes it sound like a little girl with a new magic pony doll. The power of positive thinking versus negative thinking (or "no thinking") results can be measured. Does it matter if it's simply faith in oneself, one's education and fellow workers or if it's a sky daddy? Don't results count? Why do you care how they get from Point A to Point B in life?

Okey dokey. So what? Again, why do you care what millions of people pray for? As for Schiavo, she was brain dead. The humane thing to do was to let her go. Did she leave a living will?

www.verywellmind.com

The Power of Positive Thinking

Learn about the psychology behind the power of positive thinking and how a positive outlook can help you cope with stress and improve well-being.
www.verywellmind.com www.verywellmind.com
Positive thinking is linked to a wide range of health benefits, including:
  • Better stress management and coping skills
  • Enhanced psychological health
  • Greater resistance to the common cold
  • Increased physical well-being
  • Longer life span
  • Lower rates of depression
  • Reduced risk of cardiovascular disease-related death
Click to expand...
Intercessory prayer.
 
domer76 said:
Intercessory prayer.
Click to expand...
Which has two effects: One might, indeed, be a warm fuzzy for the giver, but if the stressed or grieving person is a believer in the power of prayer, then they will benefit from a purely natural effect; the power of positive thinking. It's not my place to tell them "no, you can't do that."
 
Cypress said:
I've known hundreds of doctors over 50 years, and I went to a university with one of the best medical schools in the country. I never heard any doctor or med student say they were researching the medical benefit of prayer, meditation, hope, and the power of positive thinking.

To the extent research like that exists, it is undoubtedly insignificant and even fringe compared to all the conventional research on oncology, epidemiology, genetics, pharmaceuticals, etc.
Click to expand...
It's psychological, not physical. There's zero evidence behind "faith healing", the physical healing of illness or injuries. OTOH, the power of positive thinking has been documented as beneficial and a part of one's psychological POV. "Attitude is Everything". :)

While we may have limited options, most people, at least Americans, have options. It's their choice on which options they choose. A large part of that is their attitude. If they are positive thinkers, they would strive to get ahead. If they are negative thinkers, they'll just give up since "what does it matter?"

www.psychologytoday.com

How Attitude Creates Our Reality

What we think and feel in a given situation is shaped by our past experience.
www.psychologytoday.com www.psychologytoday.com
...Our self-schema is not static; we change over time. We are not born with such habits. We have learned these patterns of thinking. The task of changing schemas is to unlearn self-defeating old habits and replace them with new, healthier ones. That change is very different from mere intellectual understanding. The change involves the persistent practice of a new way of thinking. The whole process of changing deep schema patterns can take years.
 
Commander Dutch said:
Which has two effects: One might, indeed, be a warm fuzzy for the giver, but if the stressed or grieving person is a believer in the power of prayer, then they will benefit from a purely natural effect; the power of positive thinking. It's not my place to tell them "no, you can't do that."
Click to expand...
This seems to be going over your head. Intercessory prayer for someone who is unaware of it, doesn’t fucking work. No mind over matter. No power of positive thinking. Rather, no god answering any prayers.

I gave you Terry Schiavo. Didn’t work.
I gave you Ukraine. Isn’t working.
I gave you Gaza. Still slaughter.

Is that clear enough?
 
domer76 said:
This seems to be going over your head. Intercessory prayer for someone who is unaware of it, doesn’t fucking work. No mind over matter. No power of positive thinking. Rather, no god answering any prayers.

I gave you Terry Schiavo. Didn’t work.
I gave you Ukraine. Isn’t working.
I gave you Gaza. Still slaughter.

Is that clear enough?
Click to expand...
No, domer, I'm both agreeing with you and refusing to chase after your strawman. Let's be clear: There's no such thing as magic or supernatural forces in the Natural Universe. There is zero evidence for any of it. Ergo, as a supernatural force, prayers don't work.

That said, what is going over your head is the fact that people praying is both calming and can have a positive effect. The Catholic practice of "say ten Hail Mary's and ten "our Father's" is a meditative practice with positive, real world results. No woo. No magic. Just human nature. The power of positive thinking is a real phenomenon. You don't want to discuss that truth in your really odd quest to bash religion in general and Christianity in particular.

Again, funerals and "our prayers are with you" are for the living, not the dead. If you don't understand this difference, I can't help you.
 
Commander Dutch said:
Warm fuzzies makes it sound like a little girl with a new magic pony doll. The power of positive thinking versus negative thinking (or "no thinking") results can be measured. Does it matter if it's simply faith in oneself, one's education and fellow workers or if it's a sky daddy? Don't results count? Why do you care how they get from Point A to Point B in life?

Okey dokey. So what? Again, why do you care what millions of people pray for? As for Schiavo, she was brain dead. The humane thing to do was to let her go. Did she leave a living will?

www.verywellmind.com

The Power of Positive Thinking

Learn about the psychology behind the power of positive thinking and how a positive outlook can help you cope with stress and improve well-being.
www.verywellmind.com www.verywellmind.com
Positive thinking is linked to a wide range of health benefits, including:
  • Better stress management and coping skills
  • Enhanced psychological health
  • Greater resistance to the common cold
  • Increased physical well-being
  • Longer life span
  • Lower rates of depression
  • Reduced risk of cardiovascular disease-related death
Click to expand...
I don't think there's any question that genuine prayer, meditation, disciplined positive thinking have health benefits.

Praying to stop earthquakes or stop wars isn't going to work. Whatever laws of biology or providential design it was that gave our minds free will, rationality, and ethical belief are more than enough to prevent wars or reduce harm from environmental conditions, if we make the choices to do so.

It's pointless to count on magic. I think what meditation and prayer can do is give people the strength to deal with adversity.
 
Cypress said:
You didn't actually do a legitimate literature review. You just frantically Googled for thirty seconds and dashed back here.

I didn't say there was zero research on the power of positive thinking, prayer, and meditation. I said it was negligible.

You have not the slightest idea what percentage of medical research is committed to the power of positive thinking, and I am not going to get drawn into speculations about whether its 0.01%, 0.1%, or 1% of total medical research. It's still tiny.
Click to expand...

Thank you for admitting that you had no data in support of your position but I had some for mine.
 
Commander Dutch said:
It's psychological, not physical. There's zero evidence behind "faith healing", the physical healing of illness or injuries. OTOH, the power of positive thinking has been documented as beneficial and a part of one's psychological POV. "Attitude is Everything". :)

While we may have limited options, most people, at least Americans, have options. It's their choice on which options they choose. A large part of that is their attitude. If they are positive thinkers, they would strive to get ahead. If they are negative thinkers, they'll just give up since "what does it matter?"

www.psychologytoday.com

How Attitude Creates Our Reality

What we think and feel in a given situation is shaped by our past experience.
www.psychologytoday.com www.psychologytoday.com
...Our self-schema is not static; we change over time. We are not born with such habits. We have learned these patterns of thinking. The task of changing schemas is to unlearn self-defeating old habits and replace them with new, healthier ones. That change is very different from mere intellectual understanding. The change involves the persistent practice of a new way of thinking. The whole process of changing deep schema patterns can take years.
Click to expand...
That makes sense that it is psychology, which is essentially a social science, and doesn't lend itself to the hard sciences of biochemistry, molecular biology, biophysics, and genetics of conventional medical science research.
 
Cypress said:
That makes sense that it is psychology, which is essentially a social science, and doesn't lend itself to the hard sciences of biochemistry, molecular biology, biophysics, and genetics of conventional medical science research.
Click to expand...
Correct. Like mankind's spiritual nature, the physical is relatively well known, but the psychological and spiritual remain largely unknown.
 
Cypress said:
That makes sense that it is psychology, which is essentially a social science, and doesn't lend itself to the hard sciences of biochemistry, molecular biology, biophysics, and genetics of conventional medical science research.
Click to expand...

biochemistry is not the only hard science. Indeed psychology research is just as bound by the limits of inference and analysis as the hard sciences. There's a reason they use all those statistics.

And, yes, they are a legitimate part of conventional medical science research.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top