The Silent Slaughter of the Flower of Ukraine’s Youth | Common Dreams

Scott

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An article with the same name as the title of this thread was published on Common Dreams yesterday, by 2 authors I've become fairly familiar with over the course of the Ukraine war. I thought it was quite interesting and thought others might like to take a look at perhaps make a constructive comment or 2. Quoting the introduction and the final paragraph below:

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June 20, 2023

Now that the Ukrainian counteroffensive is underway, it is clear that the government and its Western allies are maintaining silence to conceal the brutal cost Ukraine’s brave young people are paying.

By Medea Benjamin | Nicolas J.S. Davies / Common Dreams

As Ukraine prepared to launch its much heralded but long delayed counteroffensive, the media published a photograph of a Ukrainian soldier with his finger on his lips, symbolizing the need for secrecy to retain some element of surprise for this widely telegraphed operation.

Now that the offensive has been under way for two weeks, it is clear that the Ukrainian government and its Western allies are maintaining silence for quite a different reason: to conceal the brutal cost Ukraine’s brave young people are paying to recover small scraps of territory from Russian occupation forces, in what some are already calling a suicide mission.

Western pundits at first described these first two weeks of fighting as “probing operations” to find weak spots in Russia’s defenses, which Russia has been fortifying since 2022 with multiple layers of minefields, “dragon’s teeth,” tank-traps, pre-positioned artillery, and attack helicopters, unopposed in the air, that can fire 12 anti-tank missiles apiece.

On the advice of British military advisers in Kyiv, Ukraine flung Western tanks and armored vehicles manned by NATO-trained troops into these killing fields without air support or demining operations. The results have been predictably disastrous, and it is now clear that these are not just “probing” operations as the propaganda at first claimed, but the long-awaited main offensive.

A Western official with intelligence access told The Associated Press on June 14, “Intense fighting is now ongoing in nearly all sectors of the front… This is much more than probing. These are full-scale movements of armor and heavy equipment into the Russian security zone.”

Other glimpses are emerging of the reality behind the propaganda. At a press conference after a summit at NATO Headquarters, U.S. General Mark Milley warned that the offensive will be long, violent, and costly in Ukrainian lives.

“This is a very difficult fight. It’s a very violent fight, and it will likely take a considerable amount of time and at high cost,” Milley said.

Russian videos show dozens of Ukrainian tanks and armored vehicles lying smashed in minefields, and NATO military advisers in Ukraine have confirmed that it lost 38 tanks in one night on June 8, including newly delivered German-built Leopard IIs.

[snip]

The catastrophic results of the first two weeks of Ukraine’s offensive should focus the world’s attention on the urgent need for a ceasefire to halt the daily slaughter and dismemberment of hundreds of brave young Ukrainians, who are being forced to drive through minefields and kill zones in Western gifts that are proving to be no more than U.S.- and NATO-built death-traps.

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Full article:
The Silent Slaughter of the Flower of Ukraine’s Youth | Common Dreams
 
Why would Russia want a ceasefire when they are winning?

I think they might want it because they've already gotten most of the land they wanted. I suspect they also know that simply "winning" without a diplomatic truce may well lead to the types of results that they and the U.S. got in places like Afghanistan.

On the other side of the equation, it looks like the collective west is finally beginning to realize that Ukraine isn't going to get anywhere fast with its counteroffensive. Here's an article that gets into that, published on Monday:

Foreign Policy Blob Starts To Admit A Ukraine Ceasefire Is Inevitable | thefederalist.com
 
I think they might want it because they've already gotten most of the land they wanted. I suspect they also know that simply "winning" without a diplomatic truce may well lead to the types of results that they and the U.S. got in places like Afghanistan.

On the other side of the equation, it looks like the collective west is finally beginning to realize that Ukraine isn't going to get anywhere fast with its counteroffensive. Here's an article that gets into that, published on Monday:

Foreign Policy Blob Starts To Admit A Ukraine Ceasefire Is Inevitable | thefederalist.com

That is the theory but we don’t really know what Putin wants

However Russia hasn’t been pushing for more territory so you may be correct
 
The only way for this to end is for Ukraine to capitulate
You're obviously the type of person that believes fighting for freedom and sovereignty isn't worth the risk of death and pain. Clearly, you and some of your fellow MAGAs would quickly surrender and submit to a superior armed force and in the face of adversity.

Your beliefs and your soft, cushy life experience are generally not reflected in the people of the East Slavic countries. They are born and raised on a steady and relentless diet of the necessity of sacrifice to defend the motherland against foreign Invaders. You can't throw a rock there without hitting a memorial to the great sacrifices made in repelling the Nazis.

These countries don't have a Rhine River, an Alps moutain range, an English Channel, or Atlantic Ocean serving as a geographic barrier to invasion. The steppes of Eastern Europe can be easily and effortlessly penetrated and traversed by Mongol Calvary, French legionaries, or Nazi tanks. Lacking geographic defenses, the East Slavs knew it was always going to be up to their fortitude and tenacity to discourage invaders.
 
You're obviously the type of person that believes fighting for freedom and sovereignty isn't worth the risk of death and pain. Clearly, you and some of your fellow MAGAs would quickly surrender and submit to a superior armed force and in the face of adversity.

Your beliefs and your soft, cushy life experience are generally not reflected in the people of the East Slavic countries. They are born and raised on a steady and relentless diet of the necessity of sacrifice to defend the motherland against foreign Invaders. You can't throw a rock there without hitting a memorial to the great sacrifices made in repelling the Nazis.

These countries don't have a Rhine River, an Alps moutain range, an English Channel, or Atlantic Ocean serving as a geographic barrier to invasion. The steppes of Eastern Europe can be easily and effortlessly penetrated and traversed by Mongol Calvary, French legionaries, or Nazi tanks. Lacking geographic defenses, the East Slavs knew it was always going to be up to their fortitude and tenacity to discourage invaders.

They can do whatever they want, it’s not my fight but the only way to end the killing is for them to quit fighting

Right now their offense is only fighting Russias screening force and they are getting slaughtered

They haven’t even reached Russias main defense line yet

They are just throwing men into a meat grinder at this point
 
They can do whatever they want, it’s not my fight but the only way to end the killing is for them to quit fighting

Right now their offense is only fighting Russias screening force and they are getting slaughtered

They haven’t even reached Russias main defense line yet

They are just throwing men into a meat grinder at this point

You have made it clear you don't believe fighting to defend your country and freedom is worth the risk of death against a powerful invader. You would choose surrender and submission.
 
You have made it clear you don't believe fighting to defend your country and freedom is worth the risk of death against a powerful invader. You would choose surrender and submission.

At some point you have to surrender, it happened in almost every war

Fighting beyond that point is just stupid

What you are saying is Japan should have kept fighting while we were nuking every single one of their cities because they must fight for their freedom

Ukraine has zero path to victory here, they are beaten

You would be one of those commanders that would never let your troops surrender and would order them to fight to the death knowing full well none would survive

You are the epitome of evil
 
At some point you have to surrender, it happened in almost every war

Fighting beyond that point is just stupid

What you are saying is Japan should have kept fighting while we were nuking every single one of their cities because they must fight for their freedom

Ukraine has zero path to victory here, they are beaten

You would be one of those commanders that would never let your troops surrender and would order them to fight to the death knowing full well none would survive

You are the epitome of evil

We nuked 2 and had no more nukes.
People have a tendency to fight very hard to protect themselves and their homeland from an invader.
Japanese cities were firebombed and they looked like they were nuked.
 
We nuked 2 and had no more nukes.
People have a tendency to fight very hard to protect themselves and their homeland from an invader.
Japanese cities were firebombed and they looked like they were nuked.

At some point you have to realize you are beaten and more fighting will accomplish nothing more then pointless deaths
 
Why would Russia want a ceasefire when they are winning?

The only way for this to end is for Ukraine to capitulate
Scott Ritter is saying the war will be over by early August. Whole units of Ukraine soldiers are surrendering to Russia rather than die in such a brutal war.
 
Scott Ritter is saying the war will be over by early August. Whole units of Ukraine soldiers are surrendering to Russia rather than die in such a brutal war.

Not to mention the ones just leaving

They know it’s a lost cause at this point
 
I think they might want it because they've already gotten most of the land they wanted. I suspect they also know that simply "winning" without a diplomatic truce may well lead to the types of results that they and the U.S. got in places like Afghanistan.

On the other side of the equation, it looks like the collective west is finally beginning to realize that Ukraine isn't going to get anywhere fast with its counteroffensive. Here's an article that gets into that, published on Monday:

Foreign Policy Blob Starts To Admit A Ukraine Ceasefire Is Inevitable | thefederalist.com

Russia intends to take much more of Ukraine, and this is not over till Ukraine agrees to be neutral and largely demilitarized.
 
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