The Supreme Court did not say!!

[Damocles]

They did not 'Just Say It' they determined it after taking evidence and made a legal finding after giving him DUE PROCESS. (What do you think DUE PROCESS is if not a Court hearing?)

The Colorado Court did not use what the S. Ct. later determined was the proper procedure. This happens all the time with issues never decided by the Courts, you dont know the procedure until you try.

One does not get a presumption of innocence in a NON CRIMINAL HEARING. Are you really this ignorant, yet still spouting our of your ass?

And you continue to pretend that criminal penalties can come from civil trials as you pretend that it was "due process" and therefore courts can declare guilt and apply penalties that are for criminal cases based on hearings and their feels. The three dissenting justices on the Colorado Supreme court (a few more lawyers I would listen to before I ever bothered to listen to you on these matters) were disgusted by the lack of due process. (I read their dissent).

The SCOTUS agreed, and added the fact that only Congress has the power to enforce this particular Amendment, not Secretaries of State based on their own declarations.

This "hearing" where the Secretary of State gave their reasoning and the State courts ruled in her favor were not "Due Process" to some very respected Justices... including all 3 of the liberals on the SCOTUS, not just Kagan.

I know you are better than this. Your understanding of law HAS to be better than this in reality. Step back from the bathwater ladle and your favorite juice glass.. (step away from the partisan in you for a second or two) and stop trying to deprive Americans of Due Process.

 

[Jarod]

And you continue to pretend that criminal penalties can come from civil trials as you pretend that it was "due process" and therefore courts can declare guilt and apply penalties that are for criminal cases based on hearings and their feels. The three dissenting justices on the Colorado Supreme court (a few more lawyers I would listen to before I ever bothered to listen to you on these matters) were disgusted by the lack of due process. (I read their dissent).

The SCOTUS agreed, and added the fact that only Congress has the power to enforce this particular Amendment, not Secretaries of State based on their own declarations.

This "hearing" where the Secretary of State gave their reasoning and the State courts ruled in her favor were not "Due Process" to some very respected Justices... including all 3 of the liberals on the SCOTUS, not just Kagan.

I know you are better than this. Your understanding of law HAS to be better than this in reality. Step back from the bathwater ladle and your favorite juice glass.. (step away from the partisan in you for a second or two) and stop trying to deprive Americans of Due Process.

What is the criminal penalty you believe anyone tried to impose in this case?

 

[zymurgy]

I'm not arguing he could have prevented it, though he probably could have.

But he definitely could have stopped it. He DID - after 3 hours, though. There is video of the crowd listening w/ rapt attention to his video message, and disbursing right after it (and encouraging each other to heed Trump's message).

Sorry 'bout that. And hey - what was all of that stuff on the other thread about how you don't "ignore bad behavior," regardless of party affiliation? I mean, that didn't take too long to disprove!

I think the national guard being called to the capital - and that fact being reported on every tv across the land is what caused people to go home

that's an opinion - but so is your claims

as for your bullshit at the end - stop being a fuckling retard dude

 

[Jarod]

What is the criminal penalty you believe anyone tried to impose in this case?

You are very confused... Due Process is not just a criminal thing. There is Civil Due Process which is different than Criminal Due Process. There is, in most states, different DUE PROCESS for family issues.


Keeping Trump off the Ballot is not a Criminal penalty. For that to be the case, there would have to be a Criminal Statue with a punishment that includes disqualification from office.

 

[Damocles]

What is the criminal penalty you believe anyone tried to impose in this case?

According to Kagan (and the other liberals on the SCOTUS) it was depriving a natural born citizen above the age of 35 from a right to run for President because he was guilty of insurrection. This is a criminal penalty that first a Secretary of State and then a civil court tried to declare they had the authority to decide. Per the 5th and the 14th Amendment (yeah the very Amendment you tried to use to declare his ineligibility) you do to get to do that...

 

[Jarod]

And you continue to pretend that criminal penalties can come from civil trials as you pretend that it was "due process" and therefore courts can declare guilt and apply penalties that are for criminal cases based on hearings and their feels. The three dissenting justices on the Colorado Supreme court (a few more lawyers I would listen to before I ever bothered to listen to you on these matters) were disgusted by the lack of due process. (I read their dissent).

The SCOTUS agreed, and added the fact that only Congress has the power to enforce this particular Amendment, not Secretaries of State based on their own declarations.

This "hearing" where the Secretary of State gave their reasoning and the State courts ruled in her favor were not "Due Process" to some very respected Justices... including all 3 of the liberals on the SCOTUS, not just Kagan.

I know you are better than this. Your understanding of law HAS to be better than this in reality. Step back from the bathwater ladle and your favorite juice glass.. (step away from the partisan in you for a second or two) and stop trying to deprive Americans of Due Process.

It was not proper due process, as it turns out. How do you define Due Process?

 

[BartenderElite]

I think the national guard being called to the capital - and that fact being reported on every tv across the land is what caused people to go home

that's an opinion - but so is your claims

as for your bullshit at the end - stop being a fuckling retard dude

It's not bullshit, and you're ignoring the main point.

Trump sat for 3 fucking hours while people were being hurt. Period. Regardless of what you think, Trump had power over that crowd. At minimum, he could have TRIED to stop it earlier - and the crowd reaction when he finally did come out would lead any reasonable person to believe he could have stopped it much earlier.

You're making excuses for Trump, and his bad behavior.

 

[Damocles]

You are very confused... Due Process is not just a criminal thing. There is Civil Due Process which is different than Criminal Due Process. There is, in most states, different DUE PROCESS for family issues.


Keeping Trump off the Ballot is not a Criminal penalty. For that to be the case, there would have to be a Criminal Statue with a punishment that includes disqualification from office.

The only law passed by Congress relating to Insurrection makes it a felony crime, hence criminal case based on that same 14th Amendment that gave only Congress the power to enforce that particular Amendment...

 

[zymurgy]

It's not bullshit, and you're ignoring the main point.

Trump sat for 3 fucking hours while people were being hurt. Period. Regardless of what you think, Trump had power over that crowd. At minimum, he could have TRIED to stop it earlier - and the crowd reaction when he finally did come out would lead any reasonable person to believe he could have stopped it much earlier.

You're making excuses for Trump, and his bad behavior.

you say he sat for three hours - but he told people to protest peacefully from the get go

So your lies are just that. lies

stop lying if you want to convince me of anything

 

[BartenderElite]

you say he sat for three hours - but he told people to protest peacefully from the get go

So your lies are just that. lies

stop lying if you want to convince me of anything

They obviously weren't protesting peacefully.

Do you think he didn't notice that?

Where have I lied?

 

[Damocles]

It was not proper due process, as it turns out. How do you define Due Process?

For an attorney you have an amazingly limited understanding of criminal law, how things work, and what Due Process is in criminal law.

Insurrection is a crime, you don't get to just "declare" folks guilty of crime in civil courts and apply criminal penalties, you certainly don't get to do it in a State Court for a Federal Crime.

There is a reason why OJ Simpson didn't serve any time though he was found responsible for the death of his wife and her lover in a civil court... it is because they are not allowed to exact criminal punishment through a "preponderance of the evidence".

If you want him off the ballot, convict him of the Federal Crime of Insurrection. You'll have my support, and likely that of the SCOTUS.

 

[zymurgy]

They obviously weren't protesting peacefully.

no puppet strings attached them to the president.

Where have I lied?

the timeline is 2 hours and 38 minutes - and during that time he already asked them to be peaceful

why assume his next request would be honored? that is not logical at all

 

[Jarod]

According to Kagan (and the other liberals on the SCOTUS) it was depriving a natural born citizen above the age of 35 from a right to run for President because he was guilty of insurrection. This is a criminal penalty that first a Secretary of State and then a civil court tried to declare they had the authority to decide. Per the 5th and the 14th Amendment (yeah the very Amendment you tried to use to declare his ineligibility) you do to get to do that...

Sorry not true. It is simply not a criminal penalty, just like not being allowed to be president at age 34 is not a criminal penalty. Just like finding Trump liable for $550,000,000 is not a criminal penalty.

Do you have any concept of what is different about Criminal Law?

You are simply wrong here.

 

[Sailor]

For an attorney you have an amazingly limited understanding of criminal law, how things work, and what Due Process is in criminal law.

Insurrection is a crime, you don't get to just "declare" folks guilty of crime in civil courts and apply criminal penalties, you certainly don't get to do it in a State Court for a Federal Crime.

He is not an attorney. He just lies about it.

 

[Earl]

What do you believe Due Process is?

It’s what the Fifth Amendment (that I posted) says it is.

Have you ever read the Constitution and the Bill of Rights?

The Fifth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution "No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/fifth_amendment

 

[zymurgy]

Sorry not true. It is simply not a criminal penalty, just like not being allowed to be president at age 34 is not a criminal penalty. Just like finding Trump liable for $550,000,000 is not a criminal penalty.

Do you have any concept of what is different about Criminal Law?

You are simply wrong here.

Colorado also can't throw him off the ballot for deciding his age is under 35

 

[Jarod]

The only law passed by Congress relating to Insurrection makes it a felony crime, hence criminal case based on that same 14th Amendment that gave only Congress the power to enforce that particular Amendment...

Wrong, two very different things. The Crime of insurrection came well after the 14th Amendment was passed, and well after the First people were disqualified for it.

People were disqualified from federal office under the 14th Amendment before insurrection was a crime.


What does the term "due process" mean to you?

 

[Jarod]

Colorado also can't throw him off the ballot for deciding his age is under 35

Exactly, and its still not a crime.

 

[Jarod]

For an attorney you have an amazingly limited understanding of criminal law, how things work, and what Due Process is in criminal law.

Insurrection is a crime, you don't get to just "declare" folks guilty of crime in civil courts and apply criminal penalties, you certainly don't get to do it in a State Court for a Federal Crime.

There is a reason why OJ Simpson didn't serve any time though he was found responsible for the death of his wife and her lover in a civil court... it is because they are not allowed to exact criminal punishment through a "preponderance of the evidence".

If you want him off the ballot, convict him of the Federal Crime of Insurrection. You'll have my support, and likely that of the SCOTUS.

1) This is not criminal law.
2) Keeping Trump off the ballot is not a criminal punishment.
3) The Colorado Court did not find Trump guilty of any crime.
4) He was not convicted of anything.
5) He was not adjudicated of any crime.
6) He was given no criminal penalty.
In Colorado who has authority to bring Criminal Cases? Was Trump indicted? I suspect indictments are required in Colorado for Felonies, am I correct?

You are wrong here, misinformed and very WRONG.

 

[Jarod]

For an attorney you have an amazingly limited understanding of criminal law, how things work, and what Due Process is in criminal law.

Insurrection is a crime, you don't get to just "declare" folks guilty of crime in civil courts and apply criminal penalties, you certainly don't get to do it in a State Court for a Federal Crime.

There is a reason why OJ Simpson didn't serve any time though he was found responsible for the death of his wife and her lover in a civil court... it is because they are not allowed to exact criminal punishment through a "preponderance of the evidence".

If you want him off the ballot, convict him of the Federal Crime of Insurrection. You'll have my support, and likely that of the SCOTUS.

Nobody declared Trump Guilty of Criminal insurrection. Just like they did not declare Trump guilty of rape in the E. Jean Carrol case.