Taichiliberal
Shaken, not stirred!
Yeah, keep telling yourself that ... just don't read more than one news source and you'll be able to sleep at night.
The Ukraine ‘peace deal’ is proving to be a scam
- Thread starter Cypress
- Start date
If you cut out the "Ukrainian or", I think you'd be on the nose. For a while now, there is only one scenario where I can picture Russia not achieving all of its main objectives in Ukraine- Russia and the U.S. engaging in nuclear armageddon. At which point, I think we'll all have more important things to think about then who "won" in Ukraine. In no scenario do I see Ukraine winning. But perhaps they'll be able to sell it as a win somehow in the future, just like Dutch Uncle says that the U.S. won "militarily" in Vietnam. Whatever floats your boat.
Nuclear deuces, which I suspect is why Putin has been quite polite with the U.S. despite them only offering peace plans that are currently unworkable. As to this bit about Russia demanding "our" capitulation, surely you don't include yourself in the globalist cabal that started this travesty of a war? The losers in this war are the Ukrainian soldiers for the most part. Aside from the thousands dead, there are also the thousands wounded, and for what? The promise of joining NATO "soon"? Zelensky's been saying that line for 10 years now and I think at this point he's finally realized that it was all a sham.
More like hopelessly arrogant. I still remember somes lines from a speech given by American Professor Jeffrey Sachs to European Parliament. Quoting:
**
At the end of 2021, Putin put on the table a last effort to reach a modus operandi with the U.S., in two security agreement drafts, one with Europe and one with the United States. He put the Russia-U.S. draft agreement on the table on Dec. 15, 2021.
Following that, I had an hour-long call with [National Security Advisor] Jake Sullivan in the White House, begging, “Jake, avoid the war. You can avoid the war. All the U.S. has to do is say, ‘NATO will not enlarge to Ukraine.’” And he said to me, “Oh, NATO’s not going to enlarge to Ukraine. Don’t worry about it.”
I said, “Jake, say it publicly.”
“No. No. No. We can’t say it publicly.”
I said, “Jake, you’re going to have a war over something that isn’t even going to happen?”
He said, “Don’t worry, Jeff. There will be no war.”
These are not very bright people. I’m telling you, if I can give you my honest view, they’re not very bright people. They talk to themselves. They don’t talk to anybody else. They play game theory. In noncooperative game theory, you don’t talk to the other side. You just make your strategy. This is the essence of non-cooperative game theory. It’s not negotiation theory. It’s not peacemaking theory. It is unilateral, noncooperative theory, if you know formal game theory.
That’s what they play. That kind of game theory started [in application] at the RAND Corporation. That’s what they still play. In 2019, there’s a paper by RAND, “Extending Russia: Competing from Advantageous Ground.”
Incredibly, the paper, in the public domain, asks how the U.S. should annoy, antagonize, and weaken Russia. That’s literally the strategy. We’re trying to provoke Russia, trying to make Russia break apart, perhaps have regime change, maybe unrest, maybe an economic crisis.
That’s what you in Europe call your ally. So, there I was with my frustrating phone call with Sullivan, standing out in the freezing cold. I happened to be trying to have a ski day.
“Oh, there’ll be no war, Jeff.”
We know what happened next: the Biden administration refused to negotiate over NATO enlargement. The stupidest idea of NATO is the so-called open-door policy, based on Article 10 of the NATO Treaty (1949). NATO reserves the right to go where it wants, as long as the host government agrees, without any neighbor – such as Russia — having any say whatsoever.
Well, I tell the Mexicans and the Canadians, “Don’t try it.” You know, Trump may want to take over Canada. So, the Canadian government could say to China, “Why don’t you build a military base in Ontario?” I wouldn’t advise it. The U.S. would not say, “Well, it’s an open door. That’s Canada’s and China’s business, not ours.” The U.S. would invade Canada.
Yet grownups, including in Europe, in this Parliament, in NATO, in the European Commission, repeat the absurd mantra that Russia has no say in NATO enlargement. This is nonsense stuff. This is not even baby geopolitics. This is just not thinking at all. So, the Ukraine War escalated in February 2022 when the Biden Administration refused any serious negotiations.
**
Full speech:
Jeffrey Sachs: The Geopolitics of Peace
The author explains manipulative U.S. post-war foreign policy to European MPs, explodes myths about Ukraine and urges an independent European foreign policy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjcMoDFU1xg&ab_channel=MichaelvonderSchulenburg This is an edited transcript of Professor Jeffrey Sachs’
consortiumnews.com
Ignorance and arrogance combine to produce hubris....the killer of civilizations.More like hopelessly arrogant. I still remember somes lines from a speech given by American Professor Jeffrey Sachs to European Parliament. Quoting:
**
At the end of 2021, Putin put on the table a last effort to reach a modus operandi with the U.S., in two security agreement drafts, one with Europe and one with the United States. He put the Russia-U.S. draft agreement on the table on Dec. 15, 2021.
Following that, I had an hour-long call with [National Security Advisor] Jake Sullivan in the White House, begging, “Jake, avoid the war. You can avoid the war. All the U.S. has to do is say, ‘NATO will not enlarge to Ukraine.’” And he said to me, “Oh, NATO’s not going to enlarge to Ukraine. Don’t worry about it.”
I said, “Jake, say it publicly.”
“No. No. No. We can’t say it publicly.”
I said, “Jake, you’re going to have a war over something that isn’t even going to happen?”
He said, “Don’t worry, Jeff. There will be no war.”
These are not very bright people. I’m telling you, if I can give you my honest view, they’re not very bright people. They talk to themselves. They don’t talk to anybody else. They play game theory. In noncooperative game theory, you don’t talk to the other side. You just make your strategy. This is the essence of non-cooperative game theory. It’s not negotiation theory. It’s not peacemaking theory. It is unilateral, noncooperative theory, if you know formal game theory.
That’s what they play. That kind of game theory started [in application] at the RAND Corporation. That’s what they still play. In 2019, there’s a paper by RAND, “Extending Russia: Competing from Advantageous Ground.”
Incredibly, the paper, in the public domain, asks how the U.S. should annoy, antagonize, and weaken Russia. That’s literally the strategy. We’re trying to provoke Russia, trying to make Russia break apart, perhaps have regime change, maybe unrest, maybe an economic crisis.
That’s what you in Europe call your ally. So, there I was with my frustrating phone call with Sullivan, standing out in the freezing cold. I happened to be trying to have a ski day.
“Oh, there’ll be no war, Jeff.”
We know what happened next: the Biden administration refused to negotiate over NATO enlargement. The stupidest idea of NATO is the so-called open-door policy, based on Article 10 of the NATO Treaty (1949). NATO reserves the right to go where it wants, as long as the host government agrees, without any neighbor – such as Russia — having any say whatsoever.
Well, I tell the Mexicans and the Canadians, “Don’t try it.” You know, Trump may want to take over Canada. So, the Canadian government could say to China, “Why don’t you build a military base in Ontario?” I wouldn’t advise it. The U.S. would not say, “Well, it’s an open door. That’s Canada’s and China’s business, not ours.” The U.S. would invade Canada.
Yet grownups, including in Europe, in this Parliament, in NATO, in the European Commission, repeat the absurd mantra that Russia has no say in NATO enlargement. This is nonsense stuff. This is not even baby geopolitics. This is just not thinking at all. So, the Ukraine War escalated in February 2022 when the Biden Administration refused any serious negotiations.
**
Full speech:
Jeffrey Sachs: The Geopolitics of Peace
The author explains manipulative U.S. post-war foreign policy to European MPs, explodes myths about Ukraine and urges an independent European foreign policy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjcMoDFU1xg&ab_channel=MichaelvonderSchulenburg This is an edited transcript of Professor Jeffrey Sachs’
The loser of this war is the West, and with it the American Empire....this is the end and it comes after a series of disastrous wars.
Although it is possible that we will go to war with Iran, and that will be the end....if not then the American Empire dies in Ukraine.
Trump is desperately trying to run from this, and so are you, pretending STILL that this war is between Russia and Ukraine even though I and the Russians have explained to you over and over that it is not.
I was sort of surprised how willing the Russians were to just accept that Ukraine had taken some of their territory. It made strategic sense to not divert their offensive to retake their territory, but it also was a sign of weakness.Your rewording sounds reasonable
We are seeing autonomous flying robots attacking tanks with no input from humans. We are seeing decades of robot development happen in months. It is very possible that robots can clear mines.They'd have to be some pretty miraculous robots. Seriously, where did you get this idea of these possible super robots in Ukraine's future?
I assumed Russia would win the war in two weeks. Then I saw poorly trained troops wearing tin helmets that dented when you dropped them. Russia's failure to win has meant they might not win in the long run.
Russia is a failed state and nothing but a has been regional bully surrounded by small countries with small militaries, basically just a slavic North Korea style fart, bloviating and babbling. Hostage diplomacy, running assassins around the West in fear of random dissidents, relying on other gangster regimes to feed it weapons, and making ludicrous nuclear threats to scare the halfwits into ppissing their pants.
Lord Bebo
@MyLordBebo
Russia tries to restore relations with the US at the first place, not end the war.Notice how special envoy Kirill Dmitriev after meeting with Trump’s officials put this as the top priority.
Armchair Warlord
@ArmchairW
ATACMS has been so effective that something like a third of the total number of missiles ever produced was fired into Russia to destroy, if I recall correctly, something like six helicopters, three SAM batteries, and a very threatening beach full of civilians.
I decided to create a new thread that focuses on the Ukraine war in general rather than Trump's recent peace deal with Russia and respond to Hawkeye's post there. My response to his post can be seen here:
I've responded to your post in my new thread for all things about the Ukraine war here:
Hey Walt, and anyone else reading this. I've responded to your post in a new thread that deals with the Ukraine war in general. My response can be seen here:
Responded in my new thread here:
Responded to your post here: