The US is insolvent !
- Thread starter uscitizen
- Start date
-"Do you think elves are busy inside the vault printing new money so that the investment earns a return? WHere do you think the money goes, if not into our economy?"
LMAO!
"And it seems that you still have no idea what the term "marginal tax rate" means.
I have to agree. I really think Dixie thought that millionaires in the 1950s were paying 90 cents on the dollar in taxes for all their income. He appears to have fallen for Rush Limbaugh's lies.
Also, Dixie doesn't appear to have cracked a history book in a while. The 90% top marginal rate of the eisenhower era, was an artifact of World War Two, when we HAD to raise taxes to pay for a global war. A great american liberal - JFK - rightly reduced the top marginal rate, on that outdated artifact of world war two.
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
It was a great american liberal who reduced the top marginal rate of 90%, and that top marginal rate was an outdated artifact left over from world war two, to pay for the war on germany and japan.
You know, I am really glad we've had this opportunity to put you and the liberals on record, stating that you do not support a return to the 90% top marginal rates. I don't know about other conservatives, but I'm glad to hear that!
Now that you've made it clear that this is moronic, we can discuss the actual reason a 90% top marginal rate is moronic. Because the principles are the same regardless of the level. The first, and most profoundly obvious thing is, it makes rich people not want to make any more money. Why make it, if the government is going to take 90% of it?
Contrast this with the proverbial 'other side of the coin' and you can understand, if you have money, you can make money. When you are able to make money, and it is free from burdensome taxation, you will make tons of it.
This illustrates a direct correlation between tax and growth, regarding the fortunes of the wealthy. They do not have to make money, they have plenty to live on and never earn another dime. If you return to the idiotic principles of the past, and tax them more, you will discourage them from making money. The more you tax them, the more discouraged they will be. Eventually, you will create an economic stagnation.
Most of the younger people here, were not alive when we last had an extended period of economic stagnation, it was during the last years of Nixon, through Ford and Carter. Because of the lack of growth in the economy, we had inflation. 21% to be exact. We had unemployment, we had lay-offs. Reagan literally saved us by slashing top marginal rates, and freeing a lot of old money. Suddenly, it was lucrative for the rich old fart to back a new upstart business venture, he could go make money again.
I'm going to give you a demonstration by asking you to consider the following...
Let's say, you are Rich Old Fart... You've got more money than you know what to do with, and you're comfortable with your money where it is. But your financial advisor has presented you a choice. Keep your money in secure tax sheltered bonds, or bankroll this new business with a very promising future. You can choose to bankroll the biz now, but if you turn any profit, it's going to be taxed at the top marginal rate. There is hopes that the next president will cut the top marginal rate, or offer incentives for this type of business you are to bankroll. Would you wait, and hope the next president made it more lucrative for you to bankroll the biz? Would you just go for it, taxes be damned, and pay whatever the tax rate was? Or would you just rather keep your tax-shelter investment where it is for now?
The point is this... Rich people don't have to make money, they already have it. When rich people are allowed to make money, they will... and as a result of that, our economy grows. People have jobs, services are provided, goods are bought and sold, because the people who have the money, are spending the money to make more money. If you get too greedy with taxation, just remember, rich people don't have to make money.
You know, I am really glad we've had this opportunity to put you and the liberals on record, stating that you do not support a return to the 90% top marginal rates. I don't know about other conservatives, but I'm glad to hear that!
Now that you've made it clear that this is moronic, we can discuss the actual reason a 90% top marginal rate is moronic. Because the principles are the same regardless of the level. The first, and most profoundly obvious thing is, it makes rich people not want to make any more money. Why make it, if the government is going to take 90% of it?
Contrast this with the proverbial 'other side of the coin' and you can understand, if you have money, you can make money. When you are able to make money, and it is free from burdensome taxation, you will make tons of it.
This illustrates a direct correlation between tax and growth, regarding the fortunes of the wealthy. They do not have to make money, they have plenty to live on and never earn another dime. If you return to the idiotic principles of the past, and tax them more, you will discourage them from making money. The more you tax them, the more discouraged they will be. Eventually, you will create an economic stagnation.
Most of the younger people here, were not alive when we last had an extended period of economic stagnation, it was during the last years of Nixon, through Ford and Carter. Because of the lack of growth in the economy, we had inflation. 21% to be exact. We had unemployment, we had lay-offs. Reagan literally saved us by slashing top marginal rates, and freeing a lot of old money. Suddenly, it was lucrative for the rich old fart to back a new upstart business venture, he could go make money again.
I'm going to give you a demonstration by asking you to consider the following...
Let's say, you are Rich Old Fart... You've got more money than you know what to do with, and you're comfortable with your money where it is. But your financial advisor has presented you a choice. Keep your money in secure tax sheltered bonds, or bankroll this new business with a very promising future. You can choose to bankroll the biz now, but if you turn any profit, it's going to be taxed at the top marginal rate. There is hopes that the next president will cut the top marginal rate, or offer incentives for this type of business you are to bankroll. Would you wait, and hope the next president made it more lucrative for you to bankroll the biz? Would you just go for it, taxes be damned, and pay whatever the tax rate was? Or would you just rather keep your tax-shelter investment where it is for now?
The point is this... Rich people don't have to make money, they already have it. When rich people are allowed to make money, they will... and as a result of that, our economy grows. People have jobs, services are provided, goods are bought and sold, because the people who have the money, are spending the money to make more money. If you get too greedy with taxation, just remember, rich people don't have to make money.
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
Dixie..... look.... when someone earns money from a sheltered investment, what do you think really happens to their money? When someone puts money into a tax free muni bond, or an insured money market account, do you think that the stack of bills sits inside a vault and magically grows by some percentage each night? Do you think elves are busy inside the vault printing new money so that the investment earns a return? WHere do you think the money goes, if not into our economy?
Excuse the shit out of me, Braineman... but how exactly, does money invested in tax shelters and secure bonds, do anything to stimulate growth in the economy?
It seems to me, the economy is much better served, when rich old fart can take his money out of "the mattress" and spend it! When he no longer has to worry about liberals taking every dime he makes in taxes. When you start taxing the rich old fart too much, he just says 'fuck it!' I don't need to make any more money.
Excuse the shit out of me, Braineman... but how exactly, does money invested in tax shelters and secure bonds, do anything to stimulate growth in the economy?
It seems to me, the economy is much better served, when rich old fart can take his money out of "the mattress" and spend it! When he no longer has to worry about liberals taking every dime he makes in taxes. When you start taxing the rich old fart too much, he just says 'fuck it!' I don't need to make any more money.
maineman
Banned
what do you think municipalities do with the funds generated from the sale of bonds? What do you think oil exploration companies do with the money from flow through limited partnerships? Do you hold any equity stocks in your IRA or Roth? Do you even KNOW what a tax shelter is and do you understand that money just doesn't generate more money by sitting in a vault someplace?
Originally Posted by Dixie
Excuse the shit out of me, Braineman... but how exactly, does money invested in tax shelters and secure bonds, do anything to stimulate growth in the economy?
Wow, this is becoming like something from the twighlight zone.
Dixie is completely clueless on how taxes, or investments work.
Muncipal and State Bonds 101 - Lesson for Dixie
Local and state bonds are used for construction of infrastrucure, bridges, highways, water works, etc. etc. --- employing thousands of people, generateing revenue for contractors, and providing the infrastructure neccessary for a developed economy to function.
Excuse the shit out of me, Braineman... but how exactly, does money invested in tax shelters and secure bonds, do anything to stimulate growth in the economy?
Wow, this is becoming like something from the twighlight zone.
Dixie is completely clueless on how taxes, or investments work.
Muncipal and State Bonds 101 - Lesson for Dixie
Local and state bonds are used for construction of infrastrucure, bridges, highways, water works, etc. etc. --- employing thousands of people, generateing revenue for contractors, and providing the infrastructure neccessary for a developed economy to function.
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Dixie, I have to ask based on the astonishingly foolish questions and assertions you've made here:
I used to think Maineman was kidding when he said you worked at some hick, 24- hour photo film developing shop.
I assumed you were a well-paid professional, who would (or should) be in a position to know the bare basics about taxes and investments.
If you don't mind my asking: are you some minimum wage dude working at a film developing kiosk?
cause if you are, I'll cut you slack on your woeful knowledg of taxes and investments.
I used to think Maineman was kidding when he said you worked at some hick, 24- hour photo film developing shop.
I assumed you were a well-paid professional, who would (or should) be in a position to know the bare basics about taxes and investments.
If you don't mind my asking: are you some minimum wage dude working at a film developing kiosk?
cause if you are, I'll cut you slack on your woeful knowledg of taxes and investments.
"How exactly, does money invested in tax shelters and secure bonds, do anything to stimulate growth in the economy?"
Indeed.
This question is beyond foolish. It's child like. Did Dixie think "bonds" are like gold bars, that get locked up in a vault at fort knox, and just sit there building interest?
Even my 19 year old knows, basically, what bonds are and what they do.
Indeed.
This question is beyond foolish. It's child like. Did Dixie think "bonds" are like gold bars, that get locked up in a vault at fort knox, and just sit there building interest?
Even my 19 year old knows, basically, what bonds are and what they do.
maineman
Banned
but just you watch...he'll come blustering back on this thread and call us all idiots and pinheads and explain that those questions were designed to test how much WE knew about the subject matter.
He really has no idea how much credibility he would GAIN if he just admitted that he didn't know what he was talking about once in a while.
He really has no idea how much credibility he would GAIN if he just admitted that he didn't know what he was talking about once in a while.
explain that those questions were designed to test how much WE knew about the subject matter.
Like his "test" on the Green Zone, when he slipped up and showed he didn't have a clue what the Green Zone in Iraq was?
But he is convinced that tax cuts boost our economy
Just magic I guess....
I have always said bush had a faith based following....
Indeed!
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
You know, I am not seeing much from any of you morons, except the typical routine patting each other on the back and congratulating each other for the pinhead consensus you've formed. Maine wants to answer my straightforward question with an irrelevant example of limited partnerships, which have nothing to do with tax sheltered bonds.
You all want to dance around like fairies on the head of a pin, claiming that investment in secured bonds somehow stimulates growth in our economy, they simply do not. Sure, when a municipality cashes in a bond and builds something, a certain amount of residual effect is seen in the way of growth of the economy, but we are talking about billions of dollars in secured trusts, which aren't going to be spent and aren't going to help stimulate the economy, as long as they are in secure trusts.
Trying to argue that it's okay to rape the rich with taxes, it won't effect the economy because they can all still invest in municipal bonds, is clear evidence you people are insane, and don't understand the first thing about our economy. And YES, I do think money can sit in a vault and gain value, it happens almost daily! Moron!
You all want to dance around like fairies on the head of a pin, claiming that investment in secured bonds somehow stimulates growth in our economy, they simply do not. Sure, when a municipality cashes in a bond and builds something, a certain amount of residual effect is seen in the way of growth of the economy, but we are talking about billions of dollars in secured trusts, which aren't going to be spent and aren't going to help stimulate the economy, as long as they are in secure trusts.
Trying to argue that it's okay to rape the rich with taxes, it won't effect the economy because they can all still invest in municipal bonds, is clear evidence you people are insane, and don't understand the first thing about our economy. And YES, I do think money can sit in a vault and gain value, it happens almost daily! Moron!
maineman
Banned
I really think you have no idea of the underlying principles that allow capital to generate revenue. I think you really believe that there are these big pots of money that sit in a bank vault and somehow - mysteriously - "earn" some degree of interest without actually doing anything other than sit there in the vault.
You should know that, to anyone with anything beyond freshman year entry level finance courses under their belt, you are an idiot who clearly does not know the first thing about how our economy - or ANY economy, for that matter - is financed or the bare bones basics of how capital generates revenue.
You should know that, to anyone with anything beyond freshman year entry level finance courses under their belt, you are an idiot who clearly does not know the first thing about how our economy - or ANY economy, for that matter - is financed or the bare bones basics of how capital generates revenue.