The US is insolvent !

MM: I really think you have no idea of the underlying principles that allow capital to generate revenue. I think you really believe that there are these big pots of money that sit in a bank vault and somehow - mysteriously - "earn" some degree of interest without actually doing anything other than sit there in the vault.

Yes, he actually did state you can simply put money "in a vault" and it will earn interest.

He's hopeless. I'd like to see him put a wad of 100 dollar bills in a deposit box at a bank, and come back in ten years to see if it earned interest.
 
DIXIE: "And YES, I do think money can sit in a vault and gain value, it happens almost daily! Moron!"


Seriously Dixie, I hope you aren't teaching your kids about managing money.

I would suggest a basic, remedial-level finance class for you, perhaps at a community college near you.
 
he's probably headed off in a panic to his bank to pull his life savings out of a safe deposit box even as we speak.

I wonder if Dixie realizes where his local bank GETS the money it lends to people who buy cars and get auto loans through the same bank. I do not think he sees any correlation or connection between loan interest paid TO a bank and savings account interest paid BY a bank.
 
he's probably headed off in a panic to his bank to pull his life savings out of a safe deposit box even as we speak.

I wonder if Dixie realizes where his local bank GETS the money it lends to people who buy cars and get auto loans through the same bank. I do not think he sees any correlation or connection between loan interest paid TO a bank and savings account interest paid BY a bank.


LOL
This thread is unbelievable.
 
Why are you trying to make Dixie argue a point he never argued? I am not discussing securities and bonds, and whether or not they can have a residual effect on the economy. This is what you have twisted the argument into, and I don't understand how you people can post on and on, without getting what I have said.

Do you understand that at the heart of any return on any investment is some form of economic activity?

Yes, I understand this! For the fifteen-millionth time, I understand tax law, I understand what securities are, I understand what municipal bonds are, I understand that rich people can invest in things they don't have to pay tax on. None of those things have anything to do with what we are discussing here.

If a rich person's return on his/her investment, is TAXED EXCESSIVELY... they will not invest their money, they will elect to keep it in secure places, where it will not effect anyone's economy, except maybe the Swiss bankers. Rich people don't need to make a return on their investment, they don't need to invest, they are rich and have plenty of money already, and had just as soon leave their money in securities and tax shelters, where it is not going to stimulate the growth in the economy.

It's like you idiots are intentionally trying to misunderstand something... we are talking about GROWTH in the ECONOMY, not factors of the economy! Certainly, stocks, bonds and securities are factors in the economy, no one has ever argued otherwise, except for the false argument you seem to be trying to make for me.

So far, you have all failed to show me where a stock, bond, or security, ever lifted a shovel to construct a new building, ever hired a single person, or ever bought a gallon of milk or loaf of bread. You've not shown me how a tax-sheltered fund can generate a substantial rate of return fof the investor, thus generating substantial tax revenues from that individual. THAT is the essence of what we are discussing, how to get the most tax dollars from the rich old farts. I say, we get more tax dollars in revenue, when the rich old farts are building capitalist enterprises, and not investing in safe municipal bonds.

You brain-dead morons seem to think, if we can just figure out a way to tax the rich more, take more of their earnings, then all our problems will be solved! Well, in the real world, it doesn't work like that... when you tax the rich old farts too much, they stop making money, because they DON'T NEED MONEY! They will not take the risks of investing, if the reward is going to be sucked up by Uncle Sam! Why the fuck should they?

If you little girls just want to sit here and dream up false arguments to claim I'm making, and jerk each other off over your stupid attempts at being clever, that's entirely up to you. As far as I'm concerned, none of you have offered one ounce of intelligence to this debate.
 
Well, maybe that's because it's not locked in a vault somewhere, earning interest? If it were, you might be actually watching your money grow, like most people who have tried this concept.

DIXIE: "And YES, I do think money can sit in a vault and gain value, it happens almost daily! Moron!"

You can't possibly be this stupid.


American Banking Institutions 101 - Lesson for Dixie


When you give your money to a bank, to put into a CD or money market account, they don't literally take that money and put it in a vault.

Your money is circulated back into the economy through other economic transactions, loans, etc, conducted by the bank, or others.
 
DIXIE: "And YES, I do think money can sit in a vault and gain value, it happens almost daily! Moron!"

You can't possibly be this stupid.


American Banking Institutions 101 - Lesson for Dixie


When you give your money to a bank, to put into a CD or money market account, they don't literally take that money and put it in a vault.

Your money is circulated back into the economy through other economic transactions, loans, etc, conducted by the bank, or others.


You fucking retard, I know this! I am not speaking LITERALLY! The money is also insured by the FDIC, and guaranteed by the U.S. Treasury. For all intents and purposes, yes... it's in a vault somewhere. I understand, the actual currency is re-distributed into the economy. This is what makes stocks and bonds a part of our economy. I have never said that they weren't a part of our economy. I fully understand all of this, I am not a moron like you. I also understand the bank can use these amounts to make secured loans, which again, are secured by the bank as well as the government, and for this, they will pay the customer who's money is used, a dividend. It is called, interest. This is how your money can merely "sit in a vault and grow". No, it doesn't sit in a rocking chair, knitting new little dollar bills! Hopefully, you are not so ignorantly stupid that you actually think I could believe that.

What does this have to do with economic growth in a capitalist society? What does this have to do with rich people putting their millions of dollars into commercial venture capital investments, in hopes of a big return, which would produce big revenues in taxes? Those are the investments that drive the economy, and in a profound way.
 
-Dixie: “You fucking retard, I know this! I am not speaking LITERALLY! Hopefully, you are not so ignorantly stupid that you actually think I could believe that.”

Here’s why I thought that:

-DIXIE: "And YES, I do think money can sit in a vault and gain value, it happens almost daily! Moron!"



I’m not a mind reader Dixie. Its not up to me to figure out when your lying, or when your “not speaking literally”, or when your telling the truth. You’ve lied, exaggerated, and been wrong so often, its not up to me to read your mind.
 
Why are you trying to make Dixie argue a point he never argued? I am not discussing securities and bonds, and whether or not they can have a residual effect on the economy. This is what you have twisted the argument into, and I don't understand how you people can post on and on, without getting what I have said.

Do you understand that at the heart of any return on any investment is some form of economic activity?

Yes, I understand this! For the fifteen-millionth time, I understand tax law, I understand what securities are, I understand what municipal bonds are, I understand that rich people can invest in things they don't have to pay tax on. None of those things have anything to do with what we are discussing here.

If a rich person's return on his/her investment, is TAXED EXCESSIVELY... they will not invest their money, they will elect to keep it in secure places, where it will not effect anyone's economy, except maybe the Swiss bankers. Rich people don't need to make a return on their investment, they don't need to invest, they are rich and have plenty of money already, and had just as soon leave their money in securities and tax shelters, where it is not going to stimulate the growth in the economy.

It's like you idiots are intentionally trying to misunderstand something... we are talking about GROWTH in the ECONOMY, not factors of the economy! Certainly, stocks, bonds and securities are factors in the economy, no one has ever argued otherwise, except for the false argument you seem to be trying to make for me.

So far, you have all failed to show me where a stock, bond, or security, ever lifted a shovel to construct a new building, ever hired a single person, or ever bought a gallon of milk or loaf of bread. You've not shown me how a tax-sheltered fund can generate a substantial rate of return fof the investor, thus generating substantial tax revenues from that individual. THAT is the essence of what we are discussing, how to get the most tax dollars from the rich old farts. I say, we get more tax dollars in revenue, when the rich old farts are building capitalist enterprises, and not investing in safe municipal bonds.

You brain-dead morons seem to think, if we can just figure out a way to tax the rich more, take more of their earnings, then all our problems will be solved! Well, in the real world, it doesn't work like that... when you tax the rich old farts too much, they stop making money, because they DON'T NEED MONEY! They will not take the risks of investing, if the reward is going to be sucked up by Uncle Sam! Why the fuck should they?

If you little girls just want to sit here and dream up false arguments to claim I'm making, and jerk each other off over your stupid attempts at being clever, that's entirely up to you. As far as I'm concerned, none of you have offered one ounce of intelligence to this debate.

Dixie. When rich people decide to invest their money in "secure places", what do you think that means? Do you think that those secure places somehow generate revenue without producing any economic activity? Basically, I would like to know the process you think actually happens when rich people put their money in these "secure places" that actually produces a return on their investment.

When the marginal tax rate increases by a few percentage points, what do those rich old people do with their money that somehow shelters them from paying that marginal increase, and what sort of return on investment do they make? What is the mechanism that generates income for them when they put their money in those "secure places"?
 
" when you tax the rich old farts too much, they stop making money, because they DON'T NEED MONEY! They will not take the risks of investing, if the reward is going to be sucked up by Uncle Sam! Why the fuck should they?

in a word, because making some return on equity is better for anyone than making NO return on equity.

But for those with no equity in life, and no clue what to do with it if they ever got it, that sort of truism is beyond comprehension....obviously.
 
...and Dixie's continued ignorance driven silence speaks loudly.

What a moron.....

"What does this have to do with economic growth in a capitalist society? What does this have to do with rich people putting their millions of dollars into commercial venture capital investments, in hopes of a big return, which would produce big revenues in taxes? Those are the investments that drive the economy, and in a profound way.

All investment drives the economy.... to suggest that small incremental increases in the marginal tax rate for individuals causes capital to dry up is a clear indication that Dixie does not understand the relationship between capital and revenue generation.
 
good point US.... his writing is really all one long extended flatulent gaseous allegory.

To paraphrase an old Doonesbury line:

what's the difference between Dixie and the Hindenberg?

one is a flaming Nazi gasbag...the other was a dirigible
 
good point US.... his writing is really all one long extended flatulent gaseous allegory.

To paraphrase an old Doonesbury line:

what's the difference between Dixie and the Hindenberg?

one is a flaming Nazi gasbag...the other was a dirigible

:D
I like your description, far more eloquent than I would have written.
 
" when you tax the rich old farts too much, they stop making money, because they DON'T NEED MONEY! They will not take the risks of investing, if the reward is going to be sucked up by Uncle Sam! Why the fuck should they?

in a word, because making some return on equity is better for anyone than making NO return on equity.

But for those with no equity in life, and no clue what to do with it if they ever got it, that sort of truism is beyond comprehension....obviously.


I would say this is not always accurate or true. It's not always best to make some return on equity, and any equity is going to always gain some return, unless it's in a mattress. The amount your return on your equity is taxed, has to be considered. I can take virtually no risk with a secure municipal bond, pay a minimum tax, if any, and get a reasonable return on my equity... this may be better for me financially, than investing in a more risky venture, where any profits would be taxed at top marginal rates. Yeah, I might make more money, but would it be worth the cost of paying higher taxes on my return?

Again, go back to the point of my argument, rich people don't need to make money! You are advocating a policy that presumes all rich people will just have to keep making the millions they have been making, and that just isn't the case. I know that it's stuck in your little simplistic pinheads, that if we could just squeeze the rich old fart a little more... all the problems could be solved. The fact is, any increase in taxation on rich people making money, or their businesses, will result in less revenue to the government in taxes. It will also be detrimental to the economy, in lack of new jobs and commerce.

The primary reason for this, revolves around the fact that nothing is static, things constantly change along with the flow of the economy. Rich people are not stupid, they didn't get to be rich like that, and you can never expect them to produce tax revenue for you on demand, that is not their purpose in life, they have no need to be generous, and there is no motivation for them to have to make any more money in their lifetimes, therefore, they won't be paying taxes on their income.

"Tax the Rich!" has been around a long time. It's a popular theme because it appeals to our jealous natures, and sense of nobility in standing up for the "little guy". When you look at the US Tax code, and how it unfairly shifts the overwhelming and vast majority of tax burden to the upper 20%, while leaving the lower 20% without any financial responsibility whatsoever, to speak of, it is clear that most people just think it is fair to tax the rich man more. The problem is, the economics of doing this, and how this "mantra" from the left is continuing to be resonated by people who don't understand economics.

IF we allow wealthy people to spend their wealth, make more money, and continue to spend their wealth, the economy can do nothing but grow. They will create the new jobs, the new plant or factory, the new stadium, the new IT system that revolutionizes working at the office to a thing of the past. We grow economically, we grow technologically, we grow financially, we grow in prosperity and strength, we just GROW.

When you start trying to add restriction, sock a tax on it, try to regulate or control it, you introduce an aspect to the capitalist equation, which naturally creates stagnation and zero growth. You may think it can work, you might be fooled into believing that millionaires are just going to fork over their fortune to the liberals and suck it up, but I'm telling you, history doesn't bear this out... it doesn't happen like that! The more you tax them, the more they will find ways to avoid the taxation, this is just common sense a brain-dead moron can get, it's not that difficult. If you agree, then doesn't it stand to logical reason, if you are taxing their income, they will find ways to make less income to tax?
 
Dixie.... again...what do you think the money from a secured municipal bond DOES?

YOu are an idiot. Just deal with it...your a one hour photo guy who doesn't know the first fucking thing about finance arguing with a guy with an MBA...

stop it.

SOME return on equity is always better than no return on equity. ANy return on equity is ALWAYS the result of economic activity...even tax sheltered investments create economic activity.

Do you even KNOW what the proceeds from a municipal bond DO?
 
rich people do not get to be rich people by putting their money in their mattress.... they may not need to make money but they need to not lose money and they will always opt for investment instruments that provide a rate of return over those that don't.
 
"If you agree, then doesn't it stand to logical reason, if you are taxing their income, they will find ways to make less income to tax?"

This statement contains the essence of why you will always be a stupid redneck hick living from paycheck to paycheck. Really successful people will find a way to make MORE income so that, even after a marginal increase in taxes are taken out, they will STILL have more disposable income than morons like you can even dream of. Really successful people wisely move their investment portfolio around as tax laws change in order to maximize their after tax returns. NOBODY who is a really successul person in America EVER tries to make less income... they always try to figure out how to make more, so that regardless of the constantly changing tax code, they still can continue to make money and increase their net worth.
 
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