Trump was "Jawbreakingly Stupid"

martin

Well-known member
If the allegations in the latest indictment of Donald Trump hold up, the former president is a common criminal — and an uncommonly stupid one.

Everyone knows, as the Watergate scandal drove home: The coverup is always worse than the crime. Everyone, that is, but Trump.

According to the superseding indictment handed up late Thursday, even after Trump knew the FBI was onto his improper retention of classified information, and even after he knew they were seeking security camera footage from the Mar-a-Lago storage areas where the material was kept — in other words, when any reasonably adept criminal would have known to stop digging holes — Trump made matters infinitely worse.

The alleged conduct — yes, even after all these years of watching Trump flagrantly flout norms — is nothing short of jaw-dropping: Trump allegedly conspired with others to destroy evidence.

As set out in the indictment’s relentlessly damning timeline, Trump enlisted his personal aide, Waltine Nauta, and a Mar-a-Lago worker, Carlos De Oliveira, in a conspiracy to delete the subpoenaed footage.

Consider: According to the indictment, on June 22, 2022, the Justice Department emailed to a Trump lawyer a draft grand jury subpoena for security camera footage. The next day, the former president called De Oliveira — who has reportedly worked for Trump for almost two decades — “and they spoke for approximately 24 minutes.” Hard to imagine what that might have been about.

After that, the pace picked up. Nauta claiming a “family emergency,” changed plans to accompany Trump to Illinois and made a secret trip to Florida, where he met up with De Oliveira. On June 27, 2022, De Oliveira met with another Trump employee, and, after saying the conversation should “remain between the two of them,” asked how many days the server retained video footage — and advised him that “the boss” wanted the server deleted.

“Trump Employee 4 responded that he would not know how to do that, and that he did not believe that he would have the rights to do that,” the indictment relates. De Oliveira “then insisted to TRUMP Employee 4 that ‘the boss’ wanted the server deleted and asked, ‘what are we going to do?’”

And then: “At 3:55 p.m., TRUMP called DE OLIVEIRA and they spoke for approximately three and a half minutes.”

That isn’t all. On August 26, 2022, two weeks after the FBI seized classified documents at Mar-a-Lago, Nauta called another Trump employee “and said words to the effect of, ‘someone just wants to make sure Carlos is good.’” The employee reassured Nauta that De Oliveira “would not do anything to affect his relationship” with Trump. “That same day,” the indictment states, Trump called De Oliveira and assured him that Trump would get him a lawyer.

Even before this new evidence, the allegations of obstruction lodged against Trump were already damning. “Wouldn’t it be better if we just told them we don’t have anything here?” Trump allegedly asked his lawyer — after the documents were subpoenaed. He tried to get the lawyer to deep-six any problematic documents. As the lawyer recalled, “He made a funny motion as though — well okay why don’t you take them with you to your hotel room and if there’s anything really bad in there, like, you know, pluck it out.”

But this — the alleged conspiracy to destroy the security footage — is the epitome of obstruction, stunning in its brazenness.

There is an argument, depressing but not unreasonable, that none of this matters, legally or in the court of public opinion. The unlawful retention of documents and obstruction case against Trump appeared strong when they were first made public more than a month ago. And the new Mar-a-Lago charges are unrelated to the impending indictment of Trump for his efforts to undo the results of the 2020 election.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/07/27/trump-new-indictment-watergate/


Column by Ruth Marcus
 
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He definitely hires "all the best people," eh? :laugh: :rofl2: :laugh:

I have a suspicion that all of his phone calls have been (and still are) being intercepted and recorded. Whether they can be used in court though is another question. That fact that they know who he calls and how long those calls last should make him stay up worrying all night.
 
They raided his house, why did they need security footage?

Do you think they don't know how to search?

The documents weren't hidden in a wall or something, they were sitting in plain view.

Besides, the Secret Service knew where they were kept, they would have told the agents raiding Trumps place.

This is just filing charges that are irrelevant to anything because Smith is an ass.
 
They raided his house, why did they need security footage?

Do you think they don't know how to search?

The documents weren't hidden in a wall or something, they were sitting in plain view.

Besides, the Secret Service knew where they were kept, they would have told the agents raiding Trumps place.

This is just filing charges that are irrelevant to anything because Smith is an ass.


OMG
 
He definitely hires "all the best people," eh? :laugh: :rofl2: :laugh:

I have a suspicion that all of his phone calls have been (and still are) being intercepted and recorded. Whether they can be used in court though is another question. That fact that they know who he calls and how long those calls last should make him stay up worrying all night.

An excellent point about monitoring phone calls. Agreed they may not be able to be used in court, but it would narrow down the list of suspects. As for Trump worrying, most fucking morons don't worry much. :)
 
Seriously, they didn't even need any security footage, who cares if Trump deleted it.

Why would he delete video footage and leave the documents in plain sight?

It's evidence, dear. Is there any doubt that if Biden or Hillary had done something like this, the Republicans would be having a mass conniption?...and I'd agree with them.

Destruction of evidence is a crime just like obstruction of justice.
 
They raided his house, why did they need security footage?

Do you think they don't know how to search?

The documents weren't hidden in a wall or something, they were sitting in plain view.

Oh lord. You continue to pile stupidity upon ignorance.

You just indicted your #MangoMessiah with that comment. Classified documents sitting in plain view. Nothing to see here, folks. :laugh:

Besides, the Secret Service knew where they were kept, they would have told the agents raiding Trumps place.

Wrong. SS knows where the person they are protecting is. They don't know where he keeps his empty cheeseburger boxes, his skidmarked underwear, or his stolen secret documents. It's not in their job description, Cletus.

This is just filing charges that are irrelevant to anything because Smith is an ass.

Bwahahaha! An "ass" that is going to send your orange shitgibbon to prison.
 
Oh lord. You continue to pile stupidity upon ignorance.

You just indicted your #MangoMessiah with that comment. Classified documents sitting in plain view. Nothing to see here, folks. :laugh:



Wrong. SS knows where the person they are protecting is. They don't know where he keeps his empty cheeseburger boxes, his skidmarked underwear, or his stolen secret documents. It's not in their job description, Cletus.



Bwahahaha! An "ass" that is going to send your orange shitgibbon to prison.

Agreed about unsecured classified material. The fact Trump tried to obstruct justice by moving them around is a point the MAGAts can't comprehend.
 
Oh lord. You continue to pile stupidity upon ignorance.

You just indicted your #MangoMessiah with that comment. Classified documents sitting in plain view. Nothing to see here, folks. :laugh:



Wrong. SS knows where the person they are protecting is. They don't know where he keeps his empty cheeseburger boxes, his skidmarked underwear, or his stolen secret documents. It's not in their job description, Cletus.



Bwahahaha! An "ass" that is going to send your orange shitgibbon to prison.

Of course they do, they are trained to know their environments so they can detect anything out of the ordinary.

To suggest they weren't aware of six or so boxes sitting on a floor makes you an idiot.
 
It's evidence, dear. Is there any doubt that if Biden or Hillary had done something like this, the Republicans would be having a mass conniption?...and I'd agree with them.

Destruction of evidence is a crime just like obstruction of justice.

Biden took documents and Hillary destroyed evidence, neither of them were charged for some reason.
 
He definitely hires "all the best people," eh? :laugh: :rofl2: :laugh:

I have a suspicion that all of his phone calls have been (and still are) being intercepted and recorded. Whether they can be used in court though is another question. That fact that they know who he calls and how long those calls last should make him stay up worrying all night.

Best people?

Donald Trump has assembled the worst Cabinet in American history

Any time a new administration comes into office, there will be some complaining about the new president’s cabinet picks. But we’re seeing something extraordinary happening now. Donald Trump’s cabinet brings with it a combination of ethical problems, inexperience, hostility to the missions of the departments its members are being called to lead, and plain old ignorance that is simply unprecedented.

This is shaping up to be nothing less than the worst cabinet in American history.


As just one colorful example, let’s look at this report
in today’s New York Times about Rick Perry, who will be Secretary of Energy. The change from the leadership under Barack Obama is already striking: the current secretary, Ernest Moniz, is a respected nuclear physicist who also came to the job with significant experience managing scientific institutions, and he’ll be succeeded by someone who advocated eliminating the department, although in his defense Perry couldn’t quite remember that it was the one he wanted to get rid of (that famous “Oops” moment). But it’s even worse than that:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...embled-the-worst-cabinet-in-american-history/



 
They raided his house, why did they need security footage?

Do you think they don't know how to search?

The documents weren't hidden in a wall or something, they were sitting in plain view.

Besides, the Secret Service knew where they were kept, they would have told the agents raiding Trumps place.

This is just filing charges that are irrelevant to anything because Smith is an ass.

You are such a liar. They were found in the shower. They were found in his office. They were found in bedrooms. They were in the ballroom. They were only recovered because of the raid, which they informed him was coming.
 
Biden took documents and Hillary destroyed evidence, neither of them were charged for some reason.

Why don't you judge Pence the way you judge Biden? Both cooperated with authorities.

As for Hillary, agreed. She should have been prosecuted. Why didn't Pedo Don lock her up?
 
You are such a liar. They were found in the shower. They were found in his office. They were found in bedrooms. They were in the ballroom. They were only recovered because of the raid, which they informed him was coming.

So apparently they found them easily enough without surveillance footage didn't they?
 
Why don't you judge Pence the way you judge Biden? Both cooperated with authorities.

As for Hillary, agreed. She should have been prosecuted. Why didn't Pedo Don lock her up?

Comey refused to bring charges.

But yes, Pence is guilty also.

It is illegal to take documents when you leave office, period, that is the law.
 
Comey refused to bring charges.

But yes, Pence is guilty also.

It is illegal to take documents when you leave office, period, that is the law.
Actually, it was Loretta Lynch since she was the head of the DOJ. Comey left office in MAY 2017. Why didn't Trump go after Hillary then?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Comey
7th Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation
In office September 4, 2013 – May 9, 2017


BTW, Netflix has a good miniseries about it: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt9174536/


As for Biden and Pence, yes, it was illegal, but I think the DOJ was looking at intent. Neither intended to take the documents but Trump did just like Hillary intended to delete evidence in her 30,000 emails. Again, why didn't Trump prosecute her?
 
Trump being the narcissist and megalomaniac that he is, seems to believe that he is all powerful (god like) and above all laws. This is the reason that he has made so many irrational decisions, that will result in his demise.
 
Comey refused to bring charges.

But yes, Pence is guilty also.

It is illegal to take documents when you leave office, period, that is the law.

Most people who misplace documents are not charged. NARA just gets the documents back and writes them up. The ones prosecuted are doing much more like hiding them or using them. Or they lie about them. They are different law breaks. Not the same thing at all. Trump did what no person ever did with documents, let alone a truckload. And he lied about them, hid them, and told people what was in some of them.
I have trouble believing you really cannot understand how different the cases are. You are being dishonest in trying to help Trump, the thief-in-chief.
 
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