"Uncle Tom" Obama

[cawacko]

I know, Damo - you were right from our conversation a month back. I'm not a good gauge of the American public & media.

This is going to sound elitist, but my biggest mistake is continuing to overestimate America's better judgment, despite repeated proof to the contrary. Just like when the media got caught up in Gore's serial exaggerating, and that became the campaign instead of Bush's shortcomings. I'm sorry, but I don't feel bad saying that the focus on that was stupid, and put us in a very bad place over the past 7 years.

If Hillary or McCain gets elected, and what I think is going to happen happens over the next 4-8 years, I can't help but think that many Americans will think regrettfully, "we allowed them to make the '08 campaign about what again?" I stand by my contention that this is stupid BS, and a complete distraction from real issues. We're in a recession, a bad war, an energy crisis & have many other pressing issues; each candidate will address those things differently. Maybe it is important to "get to know" a candidate, but to make the campaign about his church?

As an American, I'm embarassed about that, especially at times such as these. And I hope I'm not in a position yet again in my political life where the only silver lining about a terrible situation that the stupidity of the media & the voters put us in is, "well, at least I was right...."

Maybe I'm rehasing what has already been stated on this thread and I apologize if am. The issues in a campaign are important but I think American voters look at character as well when selecting a President. So while some stuff in a campaign may be outside just 'discussing the issues' I think its important to many people.

Just my opinion here, we could get a handful of Democrats and Republicans together and have them each list out where they stand on policy issues. For the sake of argument let's say while there might be some minor differences between the people within each party that for the most part they're pretty close. Obviously there must be something that separates the people from each other and that's where I think leadership ability, character etc. come into play as a differentiating factor.

For the most part everything there is to know about Hillary we already know. McCain has been around a long time as well and is not new to national voters. Obama is realitively new to the national scene and a lot of people don't know all that much about him (which is a good and bad thing).

Sorry for the ramble. I guess my point is for better or worse character issues play a big role in who America selects as a President.

 

[Onceler]

Maybe I'm rehasing what has already been stated on this thread and I apologize if am. The issues in a campaign are important but I think American voters look at character as well when selecting a President. So while some stuff in a campaign may be outside just 'discussing the issues' I think its important to many people.

Just my opinion here, we could get a handful of Democrats and Republicans together and have them each list out where they stand on policy issues. For the sake of argument let's say while there might be some minor differences between the people within each party that for the most part they're pretty close. Obviously there must be something that separates the people from each other and that's where I think leadership ability, character etc. come into play as a differentiating factor.

For the most part everything there is to know about Hillary we already know. McCain has been around a long time as well and is not new to national voters. Obama is realitively new to the national scene and a lot of people don't know all that much about him (which is a good and bad thing).

Sorry for the ramble. I guess my point is for better or worse character issues play a big role in who America selects as a President.

I understand that, and would only counter that America's attempts to judge character are often clumsy, inaccurate and easily manipulated. For example, they bought that Gore was the "serial exaggerator," and somehow, we ended up with the guy who really DID exaggerate, in a big way, to get us into a war which has been destructive on so many levels.

Does anyone really think Obama hates America, or thinks the gov't is responsible for AIDS? For most, this is just an excuse not to vote for a black man. I am judging Obama's character by the kind of campaign he has run, compared to Hillary, as well as how he has responded to attacks & challenging circumstances in his campaign.

That's where character comes out. Nothing Wright says or has said tells me anything at all about Obama's character.

 

[cawacko]

I understand that, and would only counter that America's attempts to judge character are often clumsy, inaccurate and easily manipulated. For example, they bought that Gore was the "serial exaggerator," and somehow, we ended up with the guy who really DID exaggerate, in a big way, to get us into a war which has been destructive on so many levels.

Does anyone really think Obama hates America, or thinks the gov't is responsible for AIDS? For most, this is just an excuse not to vote for a black man. I am judging Obama's character by the kind of campaign he has run, compared to Hillary, as well as how he has responded to attacks & challenging circumstances in his campaign.

That's where character comes out. Nothing Wright says or has said tells me anything at all about Obama's character.

This is just my opinion and it comes with obvious biases. Obama talked about Jeremiah Wright as his pastor of 20 years, a guy who knew his family and was somewhat of a mentor to Barack. A lot of people in America are religious and can relate to having a relationship with one's pastor. When those tapes came out it gave people a reason for pause like does Obama really believe this and was this what he has been listening to for 20 years at church?

The nature of the relationship has obviously come out into the public and people can see it for what it is. In the end it may not have much of an effect at all on Obama. But the fact that Obama stated he was his spirtual mentor brought a lot more attention to Barack.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

Seriously. Let's use Mitt then.

I said many people have lost their job because of who they associate with. It was just one glaring example of somebody who no longer associated with the people who did, and I said "deservedly so".

Don't be such a pustule.

The reality is, you learn who a person is by those they choose to associate with. That many didn't know Obama before his run doesn't change that is how we learn of people.

You learn of how they believe by where they choose to worship, you learn of how they think by those they choose to call "mentors".

Pretending that the shared past of a person with others is totally off-limits is preposterous.

"never in history" Pah!

Damo,

I didn't know you thought that Ron Paul was a grand dragon in the KKK.

At least now I know you have integrity.

 

[Socrtease]

Seriously. Let's use Mitt then.

I said many people have lost their job because of who they associate with. It was just one glaring example of somebody who no longer associated with the people who did, and I said "deservedly so".

Don't be such a pustule.

The reality is, you learn who a person is by those they choose to associate with. That many didn't know Obama before his run doesn't change that is how we learn of people.

You learn of how they believe by where they choose to worship, you learn of how they think by those they choose to call "mentors".

Pretending that the shared past of a person with others is totally off-limits is preposterous.
"never in history" Pah!

Everyone watch for the back peddling now. So I take it then you ADMIT that Ron Paul is a virulent racist who believes the things written in his name about scary black teenagers, and now a darkie can run faster and ALL that bullshit you kept whining about? And all that shit was written with your guys name ATTACHED to it. Sometimes you are the biggest hypocrite on this board. Your vaginitis was in full bloom when people were accusing Paul of being racist because racist shit was actually written in HIS NAME.

So following your logic we can learn alot about Ron Paul from who he hangs out with and lets write in his name? Right? Paul is a racist. MUST be because there are racist writing in his name. They appeared in a publication that carried his name. But NO it wasn't him, it was someone that he KNEW but didn't want to roll over on. So he hangs out with racists and as you said we can learn alot about a man by who he hangs out with.

You can start to back peddle now.

 

[Damocles]

Everyone watch for the back peddling now. So I take it then you ADMIT that Ron Paul is a virulent racist who believes the things written in his name about scary black teenagers, and now a darkie can run faster and ALL that bullshit you kept whining about? And all that shit was written with your guys name ATTACHED to it. Sometimes you are the biggest hypocrite on this board. Your vaginitis was in full bloom when people were accusing Paul of being racist because racist shit was actually written in HIS NAME.

So following your logic we can learn alot about Ron Paul from who he hangs out with and lets write in his name? Right? Paul is a racist. MUST be because there are racist writing in his name. They appeared in a publication that carried his name. But NO it wasn't him, it was someone that he KNEW but didn't want to roll over on. So he hangs out with racists and as you said we can learn alot about a man by who he hangs out with.

You can start to back peddle now.

I had to actually delete this post like six times and rewrite it, because your inane accusations really did hack me off. It's so "Watermark" of you...

Yes, I had a problem with Ron Paul's newsletters. Mostly that he didn't immediately disavow them, and then when he did it was half-assed and didn't reject the people who did write that for him. I spent time on here, in front of everybody speaking of who might have written the letters with Strings and why they were still working for Paul.

So. You took no clue whatsoever that I removed his picture from my sig right when that stuff hit the fan?

Or are you saying that you weren't saying that it was a problem for Paul?

Other than jokes, I haven't said one thing about supporting him for real since I found out about those things. And that is a fact.

So, tell me all about what I am and what I have done, and how my actions are "hypocritical".

You argument here is baseless. It was a problem for me. I said so when it hit, and stopped any active support I had for him at that time.

I spoke against the associations saying that even if he were not a racist, the associations hurt the "libertarian movement" then was made fun of for saying there was a "libertarian movement".


So... Mr "Ron Paul is a racist", are you going to be a hypocrite or are you going to admit it is only important to you when it is who the opposition hangs with, or are you going to change your tune?

When it came right down to it I said, "While I don't think R. Paul is a racist, I have a problem with the people he associates with, that he didn't fire the people who wrote that crap in his name, won't out them, and the person that I believe did it still worked for him."

 

[Damocles]

So, Socrtease. I have been clear. I believe that you find out about people by those they keep closest to them. You know, those people they first think of to speak for them.

And I do have a problem with R. Paul's associations.

 

[Damocles]

Now, all that being said.

I have stated why I won't vote for Obama, it isn't because of Wright either. There are certain things I am looking for in a candidate this time. And I've already seen what I get when I vote for the "lesser of two evils".

 

[Annie]

I had to actually delete this post like six times and rewrite it, because your inane accusations really did hack me off. It's so "Watermark" of you...

Yes, I had a problem with Ron Paul's newsletters. Mostly that he didn't immediately disavow them, and then when he did it was half-assed and didn't reject the people who did write that for him. I spent time on here, in front of everybody speaking of who might have written the letters with Strings and why they were still working for Paul.

So. You took no clue whatsoever that I removed his picture from my sig right when that stuff hit the fan?

Or are you saying that you weren't saying that it was a problem for Paul?

Other than jokes, I haven't said one thing about supporting him for real since I found out about those things. And that is a fact.

So, tell me all about what I am and what I have done, and how my actions are "hypocritical".

You argument here is baseless. It was a problem for me. I said so when it hit, and stopped any active support I had for him at that time.

I spoke against the associations saying that even if he were not a racist, the associations hurt the "libertarian movement" then was made fun of for saying there was a "libertarian movement".


So... Mr "Ron Paul is a racist", are you going to be a hypocrite or are you going to admit it is only important to you when it is who the opposition hangs with, or are you going to change your tune?

When it came right down to it I said, "While I don't think R. Paul is a racist, I have a problem with the people he associates with, that he didn't fire the people who wrote that crap in his name, won't out them, and the person that I believe did it still worked for him."

I remember when you removed the pic. I remember how disappointed you were.

I had empathy with those that liked Ron Paul's stances, I too was drawn. I also know that my tolerance for bigotry is low, after a few minutes of checking him out, I became an anti-Paulist. Some of you may not believe this, but I held lots of stuff back here, I wasn't comfortable.

While not drawn to Obama, I'm from Chicago and read enough warnings to be aware of some of the stuff, believe me-Rezko and Ayers are not over yet-I found him a formidable candidate. If Wright had not reemerged, Obama's PA speech would probably have thrown him over the top. He's right to be furious at Wright, if this was a 'schtick', it was poorly done.

 

[Epicurus]

Yes it's true, Socrtease.

Damocles is a fair-weather friend of the libertarian movement.

 

[Damocles]

I remember when you removed the pic. I remember how disappointed you were.

I had empathy with those that liked Ron Paul's stances, I too was drawn. I also know that my tolerance for bigotry is low, after a few minutes of checking him out, I became an anti-Paulist. Some of you may not believe this, but I held lots of stuff back here, I wasn't comfortable.

While not drawn to Obama, I'm from Chicago and read enough warnings to be aware of some of the stuff, believe me-Rezko and Ayers are not over yet-I found him a formidable candidate. If Wright had not reemerged, Obama's PA speech would probably have thrown him over the top. He's right to be furious at Wright, if this was a 'schtick', it was poorly done.

I think it is a plan of theirs.

I've spoken of this before. Wright spoke in an interview with the Times of how he and Obama had made a plan on how to distance Obama from Wright before he had announced his candidacy.

I watched Wright quit working for him, then start his interviews, working up to the last speech.

Then heard the "outrage" in Obama's voice over what he said in that speech, and how "different" it was from what he heard 20 years ago. As if he said anything at all new other than what we already had been speaking of....

I think that this was contrived by Wright and Obama to happen at the time when they thought he secured the nomination.

 

[Damocles]

Yes it's true, Socrtease.

Damocles is a fair-weather friend of the libertarian movement.

LOL. I can't win...

 

[blackascoal]

I think I mentioned yesterday how the liberals call black people who they don't agree with, or who leaves the Democrat plantation...Uncle Toms..well lookie here..this is from that Progressive site the Daily Kos.
----------------------------------------------------
by Kaos237
Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 12:29:50 PM PDT
I have been a huge supporter of Barack. He is the guy I've been behind for quite awhile now. Check my older diaries if you wonder about that. And while I've been steeling myself for a Barack loss in November, because I think the Repug machine is too good for him to beat, I had resigned myself to still working hard for him and for the Progressive cause!

But today something changed for me...

Today, the scales fell from my eyes and I saw Barack Obama for what he truly is: a weak man and a standard politician. I really never thought I would say this...

But I am disgusted with him!

SNIP:
Unfortunately, Barack has decided that he doesn't need black votes to win. I'm sure he was told by his white advisors that "black folk" will support him anyway. So why not come out and disrespect the whole community. Barack didn't transcend black-white politics; rather he chose to become white!

read it all here..
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/4/29/15229/9451/643/505817

A post from a pissed-off poster does not equate to the Democratic Party calling blacks "uncle toms."

Just so you'll know, "uncle tom" is not a democratic thing, it's a black thing and it's what we call house negros, like Colon Powell. Condolezza is just dumb.

The vast majority of blacks fully recognize the games being played and the fact thet he's attacked by the right, which includes Hillary Clinton, for being "too black" by association is completely expected.

These games are comical at best.

I appreciate the entertainment value they provide.

 

[Kamala Trump]

I also know that my tolerance for bigotry is low,

Except when it comes to jews. You refuse to recognize the jewish bigotry towards other ethnicities. You fully believe an ethnic separatist state is fine for jews, yet wrong for any other ethnic group.

You're a completely brainwashed zionist rube. Congratulations on your double standards and general idiocy.

 

[PorterM]

A post from a pissed-off poster does not equate to the Democratic Party calling blacks "uncle toms."

Just so you'll know, "uncle tom" is not a democratic thing, it's a black thing and it's what we call house negros, like Colon Powell. Condolezza is just dumb.

So, when a Black person makes it to the top in the "White" world, they are considered to be Uncle Toms. Or is that only when they do not create or stand on racist rhetoric against "Whitey". How would you consider Ron Brown or any Black General in the military?

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Bush with Ken Lay
Cheney with Halliburton

Past associations most certainly have been played over and over and over and over again in the media.

Again, I belive Obama has more than adequately addressed this issue. However, your continual attempts to downplay the relationship is quite sad. This is just a pastor of the church that Obama attended. It is someone whom he has referred to as his mentor. There is a big difference.

That said, Wright being his mentor doesn't mean that Obama shares all the same positions or points of view. Obama has addressed where he differs from Wright. THAT said, Wright did not have to step up in front of the media and continue this. His comments about Obama made certain that Obama had to come out and respond. So when Wright makes comments... the media is going to be all over it. When Obama responds, the media will report on that too.

Thats what happens in a Jerry Springer, reality trash tv loving society.

And the sad thing is that in the grand scheme of things, it don't mean shit. This rates right up there with abortion and gay marriage as political issues. I have vastly more important things to worry about than this made up bull shit.

 

[blackascoal]

So, when a Black person makes it to the top in the "White" world, they are considered to be Uncle Toms. Or is that only when they do not create or stand on racist rhetoric against "Whitey". How would you consider Ron Brown or any Black General in the military?

Obviously you have no clue.

The "white world" .. what in the hell is that? .. I live in America, not the white world.

There are millions of successful blacks who operate in the mainstream who are not considered "uncle toms", including Ron Brown and many generals, sargents, and privates in the military .. who I have not called toms. I said Colon Powell and if you know the history of Powell as his rise to the top you would also know of his involvement in the MyLai incident in Vietnam, which coupled with his known lies and deceptions at the UN promoting "facts" he knew to be lies, he qualifies as the modern-day equilvilent of the character in Uncle Tom's Cabin.

There are standards of conscience and a respect to history that blacks hold that I'm really sure you wouldn't understand nor appreciate given your almost mindless use of "whitey."

Go read Uncle Tom's Cabin, perhaps that may help your misunderstanding .. but black conscience is not something that requires you to understand.

 

[Crashk]

The only reason we even know about Rev. Wright is because the Republic party cant run on their record, or talk about the REAL issues and problems that they have created over the last 30 yrs. So they rake the muck.
What a bunch of bullshit.

 

[blackascoal]

The only reason we even know about Rev. Wright is because the Republic party cant run on their record, or talk about the REAL issues and problems that they have created over the last 30 yrs. So they rake the muck.
What a bunch of bullshit.

Absolutely.

 

[evince]

Im with you guys on that one.

What about hearing about the Reverand Moon who has supported tons of 'Licans over the years