"Universal Healthcare"

All of you here have planned to systematically destroy Christianity.

Lets destroy it,end impractical ideals.The time of the Gods has ended,the time has come in which we has free men can write our own history.We've had enough we are their puppets no more!
 
Diuretic said:
To those who claim atheism is a religion - is agnosticism a quasi-religion?
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It would depend. Are there groups that meet regularly and attempt to spread the belief? Are they non-profit and tax exempt?

You know, like these guys?

http://www.atheists.org

They even have a special page to spread the message, mostly it is anti-Christian, but it certainly is very much like tracts that promote Christianity when you get down to it.

http://www.atheists.org/christianity/

As well as local groups that meet regularly to pat themselves on the back about how much greater their belief system is than others.

Atheism can be a religion to some. Clearly so.
 
Damocles said:
It would depend. Are there groups that meet regularly and attempt to spread the belief? Are they non-profit and tax exempt?

You know, like these guys?

http://www.atheists.org

They even have a special page to spread the message, mostly it is anti-Christian, but it certainly is very much like tracts that promote Christianity when you get down to it.

http://www.atheists.org/christianity/

As well as local groups that meet regularly to pat themselves on the back about how much greater their belief system is than others.

Atheism can be a religion to some. Clearly so.
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so by the same logic Masons is a religion ?
 
uscitizen said:
so by the same logic Masons is a religion ?
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No, for these reasons.

1. It is not a belief, it is a Fraternity.
2. You cannot "convert" to Freemasonry, because it isn't a belief system. Any more than say Tappa Kegga or whatever Greek Fraternity you might want to name is.
3. Nobody tries to make somebody believe in Freemasonry, first because it isn't a belief system, secondly because it isn't hard to prove they exist. They have stickers on their cars for gawds' sakes.

I could add more, but this is getting silly there, AHZ. (oops I meant to say uscit...)

While all Freemasons believe in God in one form or another there is absolutely no requirement to believe in God in any certain way. An Agnostic could become a Freemason and sit right next to Ted Haggard if he were to become a Freemason neither one would ever be asked to change their religious beliefs to exchange them for any belief at all.
 
Hmm well do you "convert" to not believing in something ?


I wish Anyoldiron was still here to explain how Atheist is not a religion.

Although he did try and convert people.

But is teaching in general a religion by your standards?
We convert people to believe in things they cannot see and feel.
I have never seen a nutrino...
At least to know what it was.
But I do believe they exist.
 
uscitizen said:
Hmm well do you "convert" to not believing in something ?


I wish Anyoldiron was still here to explain how Atheist is not a religion.

Although he did try and convert people.

But is teaching in general a religion by your standards?
We convert people to believe in things they cannot see and feel.
I have never seen a nutrino...
At least to know what it was.
But I do believe they exist.
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If you do believe in something, then yes, it would be a conversion to a different belief.

Anyold did not go to the equivalent of a church like some I have seen.
 
Damocles said:
If you do believe in something, then yes, it would be a conversion to a different belief.

Anyold did not go to the equivalent of a church like some I have seen.
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So is teaching in general a religion ? Since much of it relies on believeing things we do not experience ?
 
uscitizen said:
Hmm well do you "convert" to not believing in something ?


I wish Anyoldiron was still here to explain how Atheist is not a religion.

Although he did try and convert people.

But is teaching in general a religion by your standards?
We convert people to believe in things they cannot see and feel.
I have never seen a nutrino...
At least to know what it was.
But I do believe they exist.
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That would also not be a religion.

While you are taking some freedom with the word "faith", one can mathematically prove a neutrino and they can be detected, in fact a telescope was created underwater for just such a purpose.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/07/080704154809.htm

So, no that would not be religion.

Religion would be a belief without evidence, in each case you bring there is evidence.

If you run a probability curve with religion on one side or atheism on the other it would take equal and infinite leaps of faith to be certain of either as you would be off the probability and therefore into the "faith" territory, regardless of where you began on the grid.
 
So a Nutrino can be proven, but god cannot. That shows a difference between faith and knowledge.
So not believing in god requires no faith, thus no religion.

faith in something that cannot be proven is pretty much the description of religion.
 
uscitizen said:
So a Nutrino can be proven, but god cannot. That shows a difference between faith and knowledge.
So not believing in god requires no faith, thus no religion.

faith in something that cannot be proven is pretty much the description of religion.
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Not true, it takes faith to be completely certain that there is no God as I explained with the probability curve from the post previous. As you progress along the probability curve the further you get from zero in either direction the more likely it is that it exists. However in order to be "certain" you must leap all the way in one direction or the other off the curve. As you travel along the probability grid you will never reach a point that is 100% certain, because it is probability.

In order to get to "certain" one must take a leap of faith, that leap is actually off the curve it is equal and infinite regardless of which way you jump. One cannot prove that God does not exist. Therefore the certainty that there is no God or gods is equally as much faith as that of those who are certain there are gods or is a God.
 
Ok I give up on Damo yet again, when will I ever learn not to argue with a wordsmither.

but I am still correct :)
 
Damocles said:
Not true, it takes faith to be completely certain that there is no God as I explained with the probability curve from the post previous. As you progress along the probability curve the further you get from zero in either direction the more likely it is that it exists. However in order to be "certain" you must leap all the way in one direction or the other off the curve. As you travel along the probability grid you will never reach a point that is 100% certain, because it is probability.

In order to get to "certain" one must take a leap of faith, that leap is actually off the curve it is equal and infinite regardless of which way you jump. One cannot prove that God does not exist. Therefore the certainty that there is no God or gods is equally as much faith as that of those who are certain there are gods or is a God.
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That is why I leave it a mystery!:clink: Like Iris DeMente!
 
Damocles said:
Not true, it takes faith to be completely certain that there is no God as I explained with the probability curve from the post previous. As you progress along the probability curve the further you get from zero in either direction the more likely it is that it exists. However in order to be "certain" you must leap all the way in one direction or the other off the curve. As you travel along the probability grid you will never reach a point that is 100% certain, because it is probability.

In order to get to "certain" one must take a leap of faith, that leap is actually off the curve it is equal and infinite regardless of which way you jump. One cannot prove that God does not exist. Therefore the certainty that there is no God or gods is equally as much faith as that of those who are certain there are gods or is a God.
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OUTRAGE! OUTRAGE I SAY!
 
People always get bent out of shape about this GOD issue. I think it's because they feel that somehow god is relevant in how we live our lives or treat each other. But of course, as we all know, how we treat each other, or, our morality, doesn't depend on GOD.

Morality is a set of behaviors and attitudes which facilitates cooperative and mutually beneficial relationships.

OH Yes.

I fist the the theocracy and the nihilists.
 
I honestly think with how little I believe in God to call me agnostic would be trivial. I'm an atheist who's able to recognize all possibilities, but I realize that it's far more likely that people believe in God because of flawed constructs in the human brain than that some magic entity exists somewhere that watches over us and only talks to us through mediums (which are usually open to interpretation).
 
I think the concept of god springs from oppressed people who can't believe their innate conception of morality is so misrepresented in a world dominated by the most psychopathic murderers amongst us. In truth, we all are god, and we should be judging the oppressors.
 
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