Violence begets violence

Cypress said:
Obama is no dove. A real dove would never be allowed to be elected president.

He's almost certainly less hawkish than Bush/Cheney/McCain. And he had far better initial judgement on Iraq.
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With that last sentence I will agree.
 
Darla said:
Yes, they're stupid. You're not supposed to call Americans stupid, but stand in the DMV, look around, strike up a few conversations, and you tell me.

People may very well be just as stupid all over the globe. I don't know. But that doesn't negate how stupid far too many of us are.
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lol so true, it's prole central
 
Chapdog said:
well for sure obama will be looked at as a dove if we suddenly get attacked again and then he doesn't do anything.

im all for striking fear into the eyes and breaking the will of the enemy. if i was at the helm during Afghanistan i would have dropped tactical nukes / and or/ chem/bio warfare into tora bora.

but then.. thats why im not president.
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And why McCain won't be either.
 
The Hawkish nature of Bush was knee jerk and lacked any rational thought. No foresight as to what happens when Saddam lost, the belief that the desire to be free from Saddam would overwhelm the desire for revenge on the part of the Shia, the belief that US freedoms would overpower the multiple generations of Islamic teaching that has told them that we are the great Satan and that western thought is immoral. If you are going to be warlike you MUST think before you strike. Bush spent so much time pushing to strike and convincing us all that war with Iraq was the answer that he and Donald MacNamera Rumsfeld never actually developed a full plan for the war, winning the war, securing the peace, and turning over a stable country to the Iraqi people. They were more worried that the flowers thrown at our troops would have thorns and not that they would eventually turn to IED's.
 
Are you forgetting................

Onceler said:
I just read a column from David Frum who said that Hillary can be "trusted" more than Obama on terror, because the guy who advises Obama on foreign policy is a known "dove."

Bush was a hawk, and we knew that going in. People loved him after 9/11, because he talked in tough, unforgiving terms. We certainly reacted to that event more from a hawkish philosophy.

And what did that get us? Can anyone say with a straight face, even in the admin, that we have prevented further violence with the Iraq war? Let's go beyond the 3,000+ dead American soldiers, and the 30,000+ casualties, many of whom will never be even close to being the same. The 1,000's of Iraqi citizens who have been tortured, and the 100K + (pick your estimate) of those who have been killed. We could even talk about the millions of refugees as a result of violence.

Beyond ALL of that, are the dozens if not hundreds of terrorist attacks that are going to occur 20-30 years from now, because of children growing up with such innate anti-Americanism due to the suffering that has resulted from our actions, and our seeming ignorance to it.

David Frum is an idiot for saying this, but his argument begs a larger question: isn't it time to give "dovishness", for lack of a better word, a chance? I'm not saying that we don't retaliate for attacks, or go after perpetrators. But hasn't hawkishness been shown time & time again - from Korea to Vietnam to Iraq - to be a failed starting point?
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we were attacked first...before the ultimate response? and yes we will be attacked again...only this time they will know what the response will be...!
 
Battleborne said:
Apples and Oranges...'He said-she said' I know Iraq as well as Saudi Arabia have dirty hands in this matter...!
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There is as much evidence that Iraq was behind 9/11 as there is that Mexico was.

Why do you want to invade our neighbor to the south? Has immigration got you that down?
 
The Iraq war is our war and only we look bad for it.
but then we have to stay around and stabilize it by killing more people becuses we messed it up for no valid reason ?
 
Say what....?

Onceler said:
There is as much evidence that Iraq was behind 9/11 as there is that Mexico was.

Why do you want to invade our neighbor to the south? Has immigration got you that down?
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are you the King of oxymorons? Iraq was not behind 911 however they did assist and cater to Usama as well as the Saudis!
 
Dense-dense -dense

Onceler said:
Well, it would be kind of fun to go after the people who actually ATTACKED US, instead of seeing them pop up on video every election season.

Idiot.
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we are in Afghanistan...and as a matter of fact the new French Presidente is sending troops to help...hows that bimbo?
 
And I place you.........

Onceler said:
I'd like to formally change the title of my thread, given recent information.

"Stupidity begets violence"
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In the category of waterbaby and 3D...talk alot of shit but are so wrong in facts and history!:eek:


However waterbaby and 3D are funny and entertaining...you on the other hand are just a political hack and jerk!
 
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Battleborne said:
Apples and Oranges...'He said-she said' I know Iraq as well as Saudi Arabia have dirty hands in this matter...!
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Wow if you know that you should present your evidence to the congress so they can have it because thus far there is no evidence that Iraq had shit to do with this.
 
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