Wake The Fuck UP!

Damocles said:
Nope, China is totalitarian, and allows certain freedom for corporate entities.

And I laugh at this "two nations" crapola. Britain is following right along in this inanity.
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Yes, China has totalitarian aspects but really it is so big and in such a state of flux that all 'isms' are probably represented.
The similarities are
1. manipulation of its citizenry - and in neither country are the people completely aware of the degree.
2. Enforced patriotism.
3. I belief that they are the chosen nation.
4. Interference of private communication by agents of the government.
5. Re-writing history.

The major difference is one of direction. China is getting better!
 
Damocles said:
No, that wouldn't be "left of center" it would be whole hawg lefty. Left of center denotes a certain moderate lean as well. I picture it as close to center. IMO, he is a "left of center" moderate.

There is a difference between simply saying he is right of center then in the next breath saying he isn't socialist therefore he couldn't be considered left of center. That's just silly.

As it stands the Federal Government already over-reached its power trying to fund and direct education at the Federal level. It certainly isn't one of the powers given to the Federal government, thus per the Constitution that power belongs to the States or the Individual. In this case, it is the States that need to address the educational needs of their children in the way they believe will attract the best of citizens, it is not the purview of the President to deal with at all.
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Of course it is silly. It doesn't comply with the American view.
Let us agree then that Obama is somewhere in the middle or to the left (certainly to the left of your previous regime, but then so was Hitler) but he certainly is not socialist as your neocon loonies would have us believe.

How you organise your levels of government is beside the point. Your education system releases people who are linguistically and mathematically illiterate, whose knowledge of the rest of the world is almost non existent and whose future is more likely to be spent in gaol than most civilised countries particularly if they are black. Federal? Schmederal? It is not working.
The whole hog lefty? Did you ever travel in eastern Europe? In the USSR? In Cuba?
Nay, have you ever holidayed in Sweden or Finland?
I keep 'harping on' about language. It is not because I am a language fascist, it is because gradually and very surrepticiously the meanings of English words are being changed in America. Communist and Liberal to name but two. We might throw in Muslim and in many cases Christian. By this are you being manipulated. Friendly fire. Colateral damage.
What is this year's name for black people or white people, homosexual people, Mexican people? What has happened to the expression 'I'm sorry but you lost'?
So when you gaze from your shores (those of you who know where they are) remember that your view of the world is only your view. The English view is different as is the French and the Spanish and the Danish.
 
Lowaicue said:
Of course it is silly. It doesn't comply with the American view.
Let us agree then that Obama is somewhere in the middle or to the left (certainly to the left of your previous regime, but then so was Hitler) but he certainly is not socialist as your neocon loonies would have us believe.

How you organise your levels of government is beside the point. Your education system releases people who are linguistically and mathematically illiterate, whose knowledge of the rest of the world is almost non existent and whose future is more likely to be spent in gaol than most civilised countries particularly if they are black. Federal? Schmederal? It is not working.
The whole hog lefty? Did you ever travel in eastern Europe? In the USSR? In Cuba?
Nay, have you ever holidayed in Sweden or Finland?
I keep 'harping on' about language. It is not because I am a language fascist, it is because gradually and very surrepticiously the meanings of English words are being changed in America. Communist and Liberal to name but two. We might throw in Muslim and in many cases Christian. By this are you being manipulated. Friendly fire. Colateral damage.
What is this year's name for black people or white people, homosexual people, Mexican people? What has happened to the expression 'I'm sorry but you lost'?
So when you gaze from your shores (those of you who know where they are) remember that your view of the world is only your view. The English view is different as is the French and the Spanish and the Danish.
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Ignorance is a personal choice.
 
Lowaicue said:
Of course it is silly. It doesn't comply with the American view.
Let us agree then that Obama is somewhere in the middle or to the left (certainly to the left of your previous regime, but then so was Hitler) but he certainly is not socialist as your neocon loonies would have us believe.

How you organise your levels of government is beside the point. Your education system releases people who are linguistically and mathematically illiterate, whose knowledge of the rest of the world is almost non existent and whose future is more likely to be spent in gaol than most civilised countries particularly if they are black. Federal? Schmederal? It is not working.
The whole hog lefty? Did you ever travel in eastern Europe? In the USSR? In Cuba?
Nay, have you ever holidayed in Sweden or Finland?
I keep 'harping on' about language. It is not because I am a language fascist, it is because gradually and very surrepticiously the meanings of English words are being changed in America. Communist and Liberal to name but two. We might throw in Muslim and in many cases Christian. By this are you being manipulated. Friendly fire. Colateral damage.
What is this year's name for black people or white people, homosexual people, Mexican people? What has happened to the expression 'I'm sorry but you lost'?
So when you gaze from your shores (those of you who know where they are) remember that your view of the world is only your view. The English view is different as is the French and the Spanish and the Danish.
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Where have I ever claimed he was socialist? That's pretensive to the extreme. You are arguing a strawman. I asked a question as to why you think he is right of center, you answered, I pointed out why I think he is left of center.

You came back with some assessment as to how he isn't superleftist out fully nationalizing banks and forcing schools into his will. Instead he's busy taking over companies and running them from his government seat of power.

It's ridiculous. He might not be left in your fashion, but he is certainly left.

As for education, I understand that the schools need help. I just point out that the power for that change lies not within the Federal Government and getting upset at somebody for actually not over-reaching their power is also just as silly as pretending he isn't left because he doesn't do it exactly your way.
 
Mottleydude said:
Asshat doesn't know what fascism is or the distinction between totalitarianism and authoritarianism.
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It's like socialism but with no pretense of equality. It's the unification of government and private interests at the very top of society.

Our revolving door policies between government and the private sector, and campaigns being controlled by cash have added to our descent into fascism.

It's fascism when the government uses tax money to "open up markets" for freedom and then select corporations go in and monopolize all resources.

It's making expenditures public, and profits private.

Both Neocons and Obama fascists hate discussing this reality, and claim it's not fascism because there is no single dictator.
 
Lowaicue said:
If you don't like being spoken to as if you are an arsehole the answer is simple. Stop being an arsehole.
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That's good advise but rather niave. Allow me to illustrate through a fable.

A frog was sitting on the bank of a flooded river when a scorpion crawled up and asked him to ferry him across the river. The frog says to the scorpion "Dude, no way, I'll get in the middle of the river and you'll sting me and I'll drown!". The scorpion then say's to the frog. "Why in the world would I do that? If I sting you we'll both drown." The frog goes, "Well, that's a good point, climb aboard!". So about half way across the fiver the scorpion stings the frog. "The frog becomes paralyzed but before going under say's "Why did you do that, now we'll both die?" and the scorpion replied "Couldn't help it, it's my nature."

The moral of the story? Dixie's a southern redneck. It's his nature to be an asshole.
 
AssHatZombie said:
It's like socialism but with no pretense of equality. It's the unification of government and private interests at the very top of society.

Our revolving door policies between government and the private sector, and campaigns being controlled by cash have added to our descent into fascism.

It's fascism when the government uses tax money to "open up markets" for freedom and then select corporations go in and monopolize all resources.

It's making expenditures public, and profits private.

Both Neocons and Obama fascists hate discussing this reality, and claim it's not fascism because there is no single dictator.
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Sorry, you're wrong, that's not what fascism is.

Fascism is a form of political behavior marked by obsessive preoccupation with community decline, humiliation or victimhood and by compensatory cults of unity, energy and purity, in which a mass-based party of committed nationalist militants, working in uneasy but effective collaboration with traditional elites, abandons democratic liberties and pursues with redemptive violence and without ethical or legal restraints goals of internal cleansing and external expansion.
 
Mottleydude said:
Sorry, you're wrong, that's not what fascism is.

Fascism is a form of political behavior marked by obsessive preoccupation with community decline, humiliation or victimhood and by compensatory cults of unity, energy and purity, in which a mass-based party of committed nationalist militants, working in uneasy but effective collaboration with traditional elites, abandons democratic liberties and pursues with redemptive violence and without ethical or legal restraints goals of internal cleansing and external expansion.
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That also sounds Like Obama. We're both right.
 
Mottleydude said:
Sorry, you're wrong, that's not what fascism is.

Fascism is a form of political behavior marked by obsessive preoccupation with community decline, humiliation or victimhood and by compensatory cults of unity, energy and purity, in which a mass-based party of committed nationalist militants, working in uneasy but effective collaboration with traditional elites, abandons democratic liberties and pursues with redemptive violence and without ethical or legal restraints goals of internal cleansing and external expansion.
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It is both more and less than this.

A fascistic economic system is a corporatist system. AHZ's definition fits one side of fascism, yours fits a description of Hitler's Germany but not necessarily of Fascism.

No common definition exists of fascism that can define it in one easy swoop. It incorporates such things as a negation of the "class system" yet blames Communism for exploiting the class system. Sometimes it bases its central theme in racism, but not always. One of the signs of fascism, and one you can find in Germany, is government direction of "public" companies. So, a company owned by Schindler would be directed to make what Germany wanted, not necessarily what would make it money. Kind of like saying he had to make a certain car even if it would cost too much and lose them money.... The government in Germany invested heavily into corporations and used that investment to direct the companies into exactly what they wanted them to do. Banks were similarly treated.
 
Lowaicue said:
As usual, my dear lady, you are quite wrong. We DO have to live with the mistakes of your government. You do not have to live with the mistakes of the British government.
We DO see a valuable relationship between our two countries as do your leaders. That you don't illustrates the depth of your ignorance.
I regret the lies that the Bush government, that you and people like you elected, and we DO have to face the consequences of the lies that that administration told. We DO have to live with your heavy booted stomping in the faces of your friends and allies since we are/were your friends and allies.
Do you honestly expect anyone, British, French, German, Australian, Chinese, Indian to sit idly by and say nothing when friends kick us in the bollocks? It might be a different matter if you contributed to the genuine good of the world but you DONT. Your foreign aid is simply political investment and, certainly in places where all westerners are the same, we tend to suffer for your brashness.
So, yes, I DO have a right to criticise you. I DO have a right to call you on your stupidity. I DO have a right to have and state an opinion that involves you.
If you don't like being spoken to as if you are an arsehole the answer is simple. Stop being an arsehole.
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First of all, I am a guy, not a lady. The name is symbolic. But that is trivial, there are more important things to discuss here. I want to correct some of your blatant errors. Indeed, we also have to live with mistakes of the British government, in fact, it occurs to me, we wouldn't even be here, if not for mistakes made by the King of England many years ago. We certainly wouldn't be an independent nation, if not for mistakes made by the British Army. However, this is just one indication of your extreme prejudice against us Yanks. Your entire post is filled with resentfulness and bitterness toward Americans, and maybe that explains why you are trying so hard to push us into totalitarian socialism.

It seems I recall the "Bush government" had the undaunted support of one Tony Blair... (I believe he was the British Prime Minister.) So when you make the distinction about "Bush Lies", you should accurately include "Blair Lies" as well. Of course, if we are going to be completely HONEST, we can look at the extensive findings from the British government, as well as the US government, which concluded there was no lie from Bush or Blair.

As for contributing to the "general good" of the world, the US remains the single largest giver of foreign aid in the world. Far surpassing anything the Brits have ever done. When there is a major world disaster, it is the US who is first to arrive and last to leave. We carry this burden as leaders of the free world, something Brits wouldn't know anything about. Before you lob criticism at the US for "occupation" of Iraq, you may want to crack open a history book, and take a gander at how many countries have been occupied (for decades) by the Brits. Unlike the US, who was instrumental in helping Iraqi's form their own democratic-style government, autonomous from the US, the Brits just assumed total control.

Of course you have a right to express your opinion, I never said you didn't. I simply asked you why it was of importance to you. I don't understand why American politics would consume a Brit to the obsession we see with you. It doesn't really make any practical sense, because whatever we do, doesn't really effect you in the UK. Perhaps it extends from the British sense of divine providence, as if you have some God-given right to control of the US, but I think that issue was settled a couple centuries ago.

Speaking of history, this would be a good time to point out, a couple centuries ago, the Brits were Top Dog, they had the strongest army, the largest navy, and the most political power, the US was a fledgling little nobody, fighting for independence. Now we find, the US is the Top Dog, and far surpass the Brits in almost every area. Could this have anything at all to do with capitalism, free-markets, free enterprise, liberty and freedom? Just where the hell do you get off telling us the "right way" to do things? Seems to me, we have done a great deal more with our nation than you have done with yours, over the course of the last couple centuries. Perhaps it is YOU who should be taking advice from US?
 
Dixie said:
The point is, Government is not efficient, never has been efficient, and never will be efficient. Anything the Government has ever done, cost us about 10x what it would have cost, had the competitive free-market capitalist private sector done it instead. Why? Because, when you introduce competition in the free-market system, you always end up with the best possible result at the least possible cost. Works every fucking time, no exceptions! With government entities, where there is no competition, and government has a monopoly, there is no incentive or reason to be efficient and keep costs down, because there is never an alternative.
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Of course there is an alternative. Another political party. And the people within the political party.

For example, we have Bush who likes war. Any extra money......let's spend it blowing things up.

Then we have Obama. Any extra money....let's cover people's medical expenses.

Now, the people within each party are responsible for different projects so each one wants more money for their project. If someone wants to put money into schools they will check out the person spending money on medical to see if they can get some of it. And, of course, the medical folks will be checking to see money is not thrown at schools when it could be used for hospitals. That's the competition.

At present, the DEBT of the United States, is greater than the combined total wealth of every American. To suggest this country is "rich" is devoid of reality, and illustrates the fundamental problem with liberal pinhead thinking. We are broke, we don't have the money to "take care of" our retirees, we don't even have the money the retirees gave us in good faith to keep safe for their retirement! What the fuck are you smoking?
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Economics 101. Question: Which person is wealthier; the one who has $100,000 stuffed under his mattress, no debt and lives in rooming house or the one who has no money, owes $10,000 but owns a house worth half a million dollars? Who would you rather be?

The Chinese may hold IOUs but what does the average citizen have? What is their total worth?

America has the money. Each American citizen is probably worth a thousand times (or more) what each Chinese citizen is worth. What do you think the average bamboo lean-to is worth compared to the average house in America?

We can feed every retiree and shelter them and clothe them. We have the know-how to produce enough food for everyone. We definately have enough houses. Some people were buying 5 and 6 condos for investment a couple of years ago and they're empty.The point being we can if we want.

The Republican proposals for privatizing a portion of SS, never indicated this would be done with anyone's SS who was at or near retirement, and it was only proposed that the government ALLOW people to VOLUNTARILY do this. If you are in your 20's, and you begin investing in the markets now, I guarantee you, in 40 years, when you are nearing retirement, those investments will have returned far more than US Treasury Bonds. Not to mention, the principle will still actually be there, instead of finding an IOU from Ted Kennedy.
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Sure. Mechanics and plumbers and carpenters and nurses and bus drivers and police and ambulance drivers are all going to become investment wizards. Everyone and their brother will be an investment counsellor and invest with people like Madoff and Lay.

Who do you think invested with Madoff? Who has hundreds of thousands of dollars or millions to drop in an investment and just let it sit there? Obviously those folks weren't high school drop out, Wal-Mart greeters.

I've watched interviews of people who were swindled out of their life savings by unscrupulous investment professionals. The people who lost their life savings were not morons. They were intelligent, educated people. The problem was they knew nothing about investing, just like most people.

It would be a damn circus if everyone invested for themselves. Then we'd definately have a problem looking after the retirees.

We've had this discussion before, and you are repeating the same irrelevant points. The US has the most advanced and technologically equipped medical facilities in the world, of course it's going to cost more... the BEST always costs more!
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Most people don't require the most advanced and technologically equipped medical facilities in the world to set a broken bone or remove the tonsils or get a prescription for a lung infection or the scores of other ailments that require medical attention, attention many can't afford now. There's little point having the most advanced and technologically equipped medical facilities in the world if one can not afford to utilize them. A person requiring medical attention does not care if the hospital looks like a resort, either.

I will reiterate.... NEVER in the history of this country, have we EVER increased marginal tax rates, and realized an increase in actual tax revenues, when compared with GDP... It's never happened. Subsequently, every time we have EVER increased marginal tax rates, we have realized a DECREASE in revenues. It's this one little thing, that liberals just don't seem to want to comprehend, as much as it's been tried and proven, they just simply balk and refuse to accept the fact.
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Let's see, the rate has been lowered from 39% to 36%. Maybe we should lower it to 3.6% and pay off the debt before Christmas. :rolleyes:

The money is NOT available, again.... The United States is over $10 trillion in the RED! Our DEBT is more than the combined total of all wealth in America! We are currently borrowing TRILLIONS upon TRILLIONS from the Communist Chinese, in order to keep our military and infrastructure functioning. You live in a liberal fairy tale, where money is plentiful, and we can spend or squander as much as we like... if that were the case, I would be right there with you! Sure... let the government pay for every fucking thing... don't stop with health care or retirement, hell, let the government buy our cars and houses too! What the fuck, everybody just quit working and let the government feed and clothe us too!! I mean, if we have this endless supply of money, why the hell not?
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If the nincompoop who sat in the White House for the last eight years hadn't blown the money on war we could have given most of those people who defaulted on mortgages their house for free!

And I have already addressed this dumb ass comment. Nothing the government funds, is ever canceled! Every silly ass ridiculous thing the government now pays for, has a vibrant lobby who will go to bat for their funding, and the whore politicians in Washington, will pay attention to the lobbyists, because that is who controls their campaign funding. In recent years, conservatives have suggested cutting the rate of increase... not the actual money, but the amount the money is set to be increased for the next fiscal year, for certain programs... the left called it "CUTS!" and accused the Republicans of wanting to starve school children and feed the elderly dog food! All they ever proposed was reducing the amount of INCREASE in funding. Now, if we can't even get a handle on the amount of built-in increase in funding from year to year, what in God's name makes you think we can ever actually CUT programs?
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I thought Obama got his funding from small, individual donations in which case he owes few special interests.

He said he would cut programs. Let's wait and see.

Again, the point is as long as there's penny not accounted for some special interest group is going to try and grab it so Obama's plan, from what I make of it, is to be sure there are no pennies left over. That will prevent another disgusting individual like Cheney getting into office and thinking, "Hmmm, we have some extra money. Let's start a war" and that's exactly what Cheney did.

In an interview he said the money was available so war was an option and he chose it. It takes one sick fvck to think like that.

Obama knows if he does not plow ahead with his plan something is going to come up and it will never see the light of day. He knows that. I know that. You know that and so do the Repubs in Congress. That's why they're trying to "make nice". They know it's going down whether or not they like it. At least they'll have a chance to give some input, albeit, not much but better than none.

Tough times are coming. Do you want to go through them with or without medical coverage?
 
Dixie said:
First of all, I am a guy, not a lady. The name is symbolic. But that is trivial, there are more important things to discuss here. I want to correct some of your blatant errors. Indeed, we also have to live with mistakes of the British government, in fact, it occurs to me, we wouldn't even be here, if not for mistakes made by the King of England many years ago. We certainly wouldn't be an independent nation, if not for mistakes made by the British Army. However, this is just one indication of your extreme prejudice against us Yanks. Your entire post is filled with resentfulness and bitterness toward Americans, and maybe that explains why you are trying so hard to push us into totalitarian socialism.

It seems I recall the "Bush government" had the undaunted support of one Tony Blair... (I believe he was the British Prime Minister.) So when you make the distinction about "Bush Lies", you should accurately include "Blair Lies" as well. Of course, if we are going to be completely HONEST, we can look at the extensive findings from the British government, as well as the US government, which concluded there was no lie from Bush or Blair.

As for contributing to the "general good" of the world, the US remains the single largest giver of foreign aid in the world. Far surpassing anything the Brits have ever done. When there is a major world disaster, it is the US who is first to arrive and last to leave. We carry this burden as leaders of the free world, something Brits wouldn't know anything about. Before you lob criticism at the US for "occupation" of Iraq, you may want to crack open a history book, and take a gander at how many countries have been occupied (for decades) by the Brits. Unlike the US, who was instrumental in helping Iraqi's form their own democratic-style government, autonomous from the US, the Brits just assumed total control.

Of course you have a right to express your opinion, I never said you didn't. I simply asked you why it was of importance to you. I don't understand why American politics would consume a Brit to the obsession we see with you. It doesn't really make any practical sense, because whatever we do, doesn't really effect you in the UK. Perhaps it extends from the British sense of divine providence, as if you have some God-given right to control of the US, but I think that issue was settled a couple centuries ago.

Speaking of history, this would be a good time to point out, a couple centuries ago, the Brits were Top Dog, they had the strongest army, the largest navy, and the most political power, the US was a fledgling little nobody, fighting for independence. Now we find, the US is the Top Dog, and far surpass the Brits in almost every area. Could this have anything at all to do with capitalism, free-markets, free enterprise, liberty and freedom? Just where the hell do you get off telling us the "right way" to do things? Seems to me, we have done a great deal more with our nation than you have done with yours, over the course of the last couple centuries. Perhaps it is YOU who should be taking advice from US?
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YOU'RE A GUY? WELL HELL!!! All this time and I thought you were my bitch! LOL
 
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