Well

Darla said:
Of course you do.

And if she had not withdrawn, and took her fight all the way to the convention, as Ted Kennedy and Ronald Reagan did before her, and as many of us feared, you would have thought...what? That she was a deranged power-hungry bitch who cared more about herself than her party or her country. Unlike Ronald Reagan and Ted Kennedy who must have taken their fights to the convention for the good of their parties and their country.

So at the end of it, what do we have? What could have Hillary Clinton, who came this close to being the first woman president, have done to make people happy? Withdrawing didn't make them happy as we see from some of the deranged comments later in this thread. We know takin it to the convention wouldn't have made people happy.

If she had taken out a gun and shot herself in the head, committing public suicide, as an end to her campaign...then, would people have been satisfied? Would that have been enough?
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I'm sorry but just "any woman" isn't what people want for a president and voting against one is no more mysogynistc than voting against a black is racist. Playing the gender victims won't improve womens status in America.
 
Dilloduck said:
I'm sorry but just "any woman" isn't what people want for a president and voting against one is no more mysogynistc than voting against a black is racist. Playing the gender victims won't improve womens status in America.
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Typical con response. Anyone who points out the problems with institutional racism and sexism, is whining and playing the "victim".

Lot's of people voted against Clinton because of her Iraq policy, her war vote, and her belligerence to Iran. Fine. Lots of people voted against Obama on policy reasons. I can respect that.

The fact is lots of people hate Clinton because "she's a bitch". Because she has been shoe-horned into some gender stereotypes. "How are we going to stop the bitch?", was a prominent question asked by many repukes. John McCain thought that was an excellent question.

Likewise, lots of people hate Obama because he's a radical "black muslim", or attends an allegedly racist black church. Bravo thinks the fist bump with Michelle is evidence of shuck and jiving. The undertones of racism are fully in the open, and those that deny they exist are fools.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-IrhRSwF9U&eurl=http://www.feministe.us/blog/page/2/
 
That is the point I was trying to make the other day Dillo. We are at a point in this game that trying to point out racism everytime it occurs ( Darla is right that it occurs) may be counter productive. Hillary got a shit load of American votes and I think she proved that a Woman can get elected. Wasting time wallowing with the pigs who choose to roll in the mud oif sexism will just slow a lady down in her efforts. Obama held his head above the water and did not get sucked into the vortex of any of the racist crap thrown at him.

He had one of his headquaters bomb threatened for hells sake people.

Hillary did the job she was supposed to due when she gave this last speach. I give her her due. Her entire political carreer could have ended if she did not get this one right. She got it right.
 
Mottleydude said:
I actually met Hilliary Clinton before Bill was elected President and was still the Governor of Arkansas. She's a bright and articulate woman and the perfect match for someone like Bill who is half brilliant politician half Arkansas hillbilly. If you knew some of the stories I heard about her and actually sat across a table from her and talked about things other than politics, you're views on her would soften.

I met her at a small but ecclectic book store in, of all places, Blytheville, Arkansas where I was working at a steel plant (this was in 1991). This book store was an intellectual oasis in a redneck dessert. Two famous individuals would come to that book store annually for signings or readings as one had been an up and coming author who they had supported when he was an unknown and the other just liked to come once a year and talk about books and reading. The first was John Grishom, who wrote a novel about nearby Black Oak, Arkansas (Yep, the one of Jim Dandy fame) and the other was Hilliary Clinton. I met Mrs. Clinton at a book reading there and after the reading there was a group discussion on literature namely about southern writers. One of her favorite authors, she discussed, was probably the south's greatest novelist William Faulkner. She agreed with me when I mentioned that I thought Anne Rice was one of the best writers of erotica ever. Another interesting thing was that she was not the only Ivy league graduate at the reading as a colleague of mine was at the reading and he graduated from Princeton with an engineering degree. Two Ivy leaguers is not something you would expect to find in Blytheville.

One thing is for certain, she is one hell of a formidable woman and lets be honest, most men resent the hell out of woman like that.
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Very interesting and cool stuff mott.
 
Desh said:
That is the point I was trying to make the other day Dillo. We are at a point in this game that trying to point out racism everytime it occurs ( Darla is right that it occurs) may be counter productive. Hillary got a shit load of American votes and I think she proved that a Woman can get elected. Wasting time wallowing with the pigs who choose to roll in the mud oif sexism will just slow a lady down in her efforts. Obama held his head above the water and did not get sucked into the vortex of any of the racist crap thrown at him.

He had one of his headquaters bomb threatened for hells sake people.

Hillary did the job she was supposed to due when she gave this last speach. I give her her due. Her entire political carreer could have ended if she did not get this one right. She got it right.
Click to expand...

I disagree Desh, and first, I want to state that Dilldock is a good old boy, n*gger hating, woman hating asswipe, so I won't even take into account anything he has to say, and that's why I have him on IA. I don't talk to people who throw around the n word. He's an out and out racist, you know it, the whole board knows it, and why we continue to entertain this wipe, is beyond me. But, that aside, and addressing only what you had to say -

What I feel you are basically saying is that; women should stop whining.

In fact, it was women, throwing brushback pitches across the plates of sexist media mavens such as Chris Matthews and many others, who have made it known, that's not acceptable any more, and we can, and we will, take your career for it. It's sexists who now have to sit down and shut up Desh, and that's thanks to women, who refuse to do so.

In fact, Chris Matthews I will give credit to. He got the message. And I think he's actually been introspective about it. I think that's a good thing. For women, and for Chris Matthews.
 
So you "don't talk to people who throw around the n word", eh?

That must leave most rap artists and a certain Democrat Senator bereft of your scintillating discourse.
 
Cypress said:
The undertones of racism are fully in the open, and those that deny they exist are fools.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-IrhRSwF9U&eurl=http://www.feministe.us/blog/page/2/
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As are those who over play it. Male politicians are called the male counterpart of bitch which I think is bastard these days. If she would rather be called somethnig neutral like asshole I would be willing to accomodate her and those who think using the term Bitch is misogynist as opposed to acknowledging the fact that she is a female.
 
Cypress said:
Typical con response. Anyone who points out the problems with institutional racism and sexism, is whining and playing the "victim".

Lot's of people voted against Clinton because of her Iraq policy, her war vote, and her belligerence to Iran. Fine. Lots of people voted against Obama on policy reasons. I can respect that.

The fact is lots of people hate Clinton because "she's a bitch". Because she has been shoe-horned into some gender stereotypes. "How are we going to stop the bitch?", was a prominent question asked by many repukes. John McCain thought that was an excellent question.

Likewise, lots of people hate Obama because he's a radical "black muslim", or attends an allegedly racist black church. Bravo thinks the fist bump with Michelle is evidence of shuck and jiving. The undertones of racism are fully in the open, and those that deny they exist are fools.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-IrhRSwF9U&eurl=http://www.feministe.us/blog/page/2/
Click to expand...


Well, that was stunning.
 
Desh said:
That is the point I was trying to make the other day Dillo. We are at a point in this game that trying to point out racism everytime it occurs ( Darla is right that it occurs) may be counter productive. Hillary got a shit load of American votes and I think she proved that a Woman can get elected. Wasting time wallowing with the pigs who choose to roll in the mud oif sexism will just slow a lady down in her efforts. Obama held his head above the water and did not get sucked into the vortex of any of the racist crap thrown at him.

He had one of his headquaters bomb threatened for hells sake people.

Hillary did the job she was supposed to due when she gave this last speach. I give her her due. Her entire political carreer could have ended if she did not get this one right. She got it right.
Click to expand...

We are also at a point in time that when someone gets all bent out of shape everytime they hear the word bitch they scream sexism it's counter productive.
 
Mottleydude said:
I actually met Hilliary Clinton before Bill was elected President and was still the Governor of Arkansas. She's a bright and articulate woman and the perfect match for someone like Bill who is half brilliant politician half Arkansas hillbilly. If you knew some of the stories I heard about her and actually sat across a table from her and talked about things other than politics, you're views on her would soften.

I met her at a small but ecclectic book store in, of all places, Blytheville, Arkansas where I was working at a steel plant (this was in 1991). This book store was an intellectual oasis in a redneck dessert. Two famous individuals would come to that book store annually for signings or readings as one had been an up and coming author who they had supported when he was an unknown and the other just liked to come once a year and talk about books and reading. The first was John Grishom, who wrote a novel about nearby Black Oak, Arkansas (Yep, the one of Jim Dandy fame) and the other was Hilliary Clinton. I met Mrs. Clinton at a book reading there and after the reading there was a group discussion on literature namely about southern writers. One of her favorite authors, she discussed, was probably the south's greatest novelist William Faulkner. She agreed with me when I mentioned that I thought Anne Rice was one of the best writers of erotica ever. Another interesting thing was that she was not the only Ivy league graduate at the reading as a colleague of mine was at the reading and he graduated from Princeton with an engineering degree. Two Ivy leaguers is not something you would expect to find in Blytheville.

One thing is for certain, she is one hell of a formidable woman and lets be honest, most men resent the hell out of woman like that.
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That's interesting, thanks.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/08/us/politics/08recon.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

That link is to a very long piece about the Clinton campaign, I think it's worth reading. In it you will discover that Hillary refused to personally hit up donors, and that she refused for a long time to call superdelegates. But Obama was doing both of those things all along. Yet, Hillary has been portrayed as the ruthless one who was leaning on the superdelegates. Hmmm.

I am more excited about Obama's candidacy, than I would have been about a Clinton candidacy. I still believe putting her on the ticket would be a mistake, because of the clinton baggage from the 90's wars. But, I find it interesting that the above, seems to indicate that they both assumed gender roles. The man being very comfortable with asking for support, the woman less so. And yet, the woman was the one portrayed as being the person who was grasping and demanding.

Interesting.
 
Solitary said:
The reasons for my serious dislike of Hillary have nothing to do with her being female of with her staying in the race too long.

It has to do with her.
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As it is with most people who don't like her.

If sexism is the real issue, how did she get so many male votes in places like West Virginia and Kentucky which must be the meccas of sexist thought?

Sexism doesn't explain her loss and it doesn't explain why so many people don't like her.
 
Darla said:
I disagree Desh, and first, I want to state that Dilldock is a good old boy, n*gger hating, woman hating asswipe, so I won't even take into account anything he has to say, and that's why I have him on IA. I don't talk to people who throw around the n word. He's an out and out racist, you know it, the whole board knows it, and why we continue to entertain this wipe, is beyond me. But, that aside, and addressing only what you had to say -

What I feel you are basically saying is that; women should stop whining.

In fact, it was women, throwing brushback pitches across the plates of sexist media mavens such as Chris Matthews and many others, who have made it known, that's not acceptable any more, and we can, and we will, take your career for it. It's sexists who now have to sit down and shut up Desh, and that's thanks to women, who refuse to do so.

In fact, Chris Matthews I will give credit to. He got the message. And I think he's actually been introspective about it. I think that's a good thing. For women, and for Chris Matthews.
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Don't be a ignorant bastard---my immediate supervisor is a woman and the our CEO who regularly asks me for advice is black. We get along great. If I were a true racist or misogynist that could never occur without them recognizing it.
 
blackascoal said:
As it is with most people who don't like her.

If sexism is the real issue, how did she get so many male votes in places like West Virginia and Kentucky which must be the meccas od sexist thought?

Sexism doesn't explain her loss and it doesn't explain why so many people don't like her.
Click to expand...

Nobody said she lost because of sexism. Most women writers are stipulating up front that she did not.

But they don't want to not talk about the sexism that arose around her candidacy...why do you insist on having a problem with that? You've made this same post about 40 times.

I always say, I don't believe sexism was the deciding factor. What part of that do you not understand?
 
Darla said:
I disagree Desh, and first, I want to state that Dilldock is a good old boy, n*gger hating, woman hating asswipe, so I won't even take into account anything he has to say, and that's why I have him on IA. I don't talk to people who throw around the n word. He's an out and out racist, you know it, the whole board knows it, and why we continue to entertain this wipe, is beyond me. But, that aside, and addressing only what you had to say -

What I feel you are basically saying is that; women should stop whining.

In fact, it was women, throwing brushback pitches across the plates of sexist media mavens such as Chris Matthews and many others, who have made it known, that's not acceptable any more, and we can, and we will, take your career for it. It's sexists who now have to sit down and shut up Desh, and that's thanks to women, who refuse to do so.

In fact, Chris Matthews I will give credit to. He got the message. And I think he's actually been introspective about it. I think that's a good thing. For women, and for Chris Matthews.
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Oh I agree Darla but the person running like Hillary herself has to stay far away from any comments on it.

Mathews had to straighten his shit out because he was in trouble on a number of fronts. I think he came close to being canned because of people like me writing into the station and telling them he was an utter waste of time. I think he has been watching his mouth in a number of aspects.

Im not saying no mention of it but Im saying it has to be done very carefully.

It should not be ever done by the candidate herself. This is what Obama did so well about race. He let the obvious racism defeat its self. Its actually easier for a woman candidate to do this because half the country is women. Who ever did the "Iron my shirt" thing did her a great favor.
 
Darla said:
Nobody said she lost because of sexism. Most women writers are stipulating up front that she did not.

But they don't want to not talk about the sexism that arose around her candidacy...why do you insist on having a problem with that? You've made this same post about 40 times.

I always say, I don't believe sexism was the deciding factor. What part of that do you not understand?
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I have no problem with women writers further exposing sexism and using Hillary's campaign to demonstrate where it did expose itself.

But the inclination of myself and others to point out where it did not exist is as important an element of the argument as where it does .. in my opinion.

Pointing out where racism does not exist is as important as pointing out where it does .. and this has been a factor in Obama's campaign, and had he lost, it would have been important to recognize that he didn't lose because he's black .. just as he won't lose against McCain because he's black.
 
Darla said:
My prediction; she will still be the Evil Queen Bitch.

and that my friends, is what we call sexism.
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Not by me--I'm going to be sensitive to you gender hypersensitivity and just refer to her as another pompous asshole politicians. Last I checked both sexes still have assholes.
 
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