Were Confederate soldiers terrorists?

Granule said:
Originally Posted by Taichiliberal
Actually, you're just some willfully ignorant neocon/teabagger parrot trying to justify his own racism and bigotry by linking some op-ed swill from that right wing rag (a'la' Rev. Sun Yung Moon) the Washington Times.....which STILL does not disprove or change my previous statement. "
"The opinions of Communities writers do not necessarily reflect nor are they endorsed by the Washington Times"



Like Rev. Moon, you cry "communist" whenever your racist, fascist drivel is accurately debunked. Blow it out your ass, buddy.
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Actually, I'm the bringer of truth. Approximately 90% of the US African-American contingent are helpless victims. They have become dependent on the DNC, and these shepherds of welfare are more than happy to guide the blacks through the shark infested waters of poverty. ;)
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Please post the data from the Census Bureau or the Dept of Labor which state in no uncertain terms what you claim here. Mind you, I don't want your worthless opinion, supposition or conjecture, or yet another op-ed piece from some right wingnut forum. If you can't support your drivel with bonafide, documented facts, then you're just another David Duke wanna be spewing 3rd rate propaganda. Carry on.
 
Taichiliberal said:
Please post the data from the Census Bureau or the Dept of Labor which state in no uncertain terms what you claim here. Mind you, I don't want your worthless opinion, supposition or conjecture, or yet another op-ed piece from some right wingnut forum. If you can't support your drivel with bonafide, documented facts, then you're just another David Duke wanna be spewing 3rd rate propaganda. Carry on.
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Please post the data from the Census Bureau or the Dept of Labor which state in no uncertain terms that I am "just some willfully ignorant neocon/teabagger parrot trying to justify his own racism and bigotry".

You see, moron, neither of us has the ability to drag government agencies into this debate. It's just not possible. So since your stupid request isn't possible, all that leaves us is our own thoughts and observations.

Try again.
 
Threedee said:
This war was about southerners being a bunch of whiny babies.
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Come on man, you don't honestly believe that to be the case, do you? I know you are mature enough to understand this was certainly not the reason the South seceded from the Union. I have given you the specifics, we've gone over things in detail, and now you want to throw out "whiny babies" as what the war was about? Grow the fuck up and try to have an adult conversation here. That's just plain embarrassing, you're a grown man.

To that extent, the war was a miserable failure, as we didn't kill enough if them to improve their attitude.
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Again.... Grow the fuck up and stop being petulant because you hate Southern people. I'm sorry you're a bigot who has to judge people on the basis of where they're from or who they are, but you don't have to be a braying ass about it here. You don't improve people's attitudes by killing them. If you were interested in improving attitudes, you could have given black people civil rights during reconstruction, instead of waiting another century. But since we're talking in first person, you didn't do that, did you?

You said earlier that the South seceded because they feared seizure of their property via statute. You made a comparison to how I would feel in environmentalists banned automobiles and seized my car.
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I did not say anything of the sort. I said that Southern states seceded because of the Constitution and the principles of the Declaration of Independence.

I correctly pointed out that no such statutes were being proposed in Congress in Dec 1860. In fact, a compromise known as the Crittenden Amendment was on the table to protect southern slavery in order to keep the retards from seceding. The South rejected the proposed Amendment, because they were offended by attacks upon slavery.
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No, what you are trying to do, is play the "sugar won't melt in my mouth" game, but since you mouth is full of steaming horse shit, the sugar will definitely melt. Do you understand how Maryland became part of the Union? The Federal government came into Maryland and bought the slaves from the slave owners, purchasing their freedom. They did the same thing in Delaware, although there weren't many slaves to purchase there. However, the Federal offer to buy slaves was not extended to the Deep South, and this is a problem, you see, because you can't work a deal with some slave owners to buy their slave 'property' but not do so for everyone else, because the Constitution requires equal protections under the law.

With the nation expanding west, it became abundantly clear what the game plan had become, add enough "free states" and thus, enough legislative votes, to outlaw slavery once and for all. The South was about to be screwed out of a billion dollars worth of property, and that was in 1860 dollars. Regardless of whether it was right or wrong, these people made legal purchases of legal property (slaves) and the Federal government simply did not have the right to do anything with them. Now we can get all emotive about this, and pretend that 1860 was the same as 1964, but that's just not reality-based, we lived in a totally different world.

Which brings me back to the point that the southerners were a bunch of whiny babies. In other words - fags.
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Okay, so you finish off with yet another indication of your profound bigotry and prejudice? Are you saying that Southerners were homosexuals, and that's why they started the war? How about stopping yourself from being a total ass, and listen to what I am telling you. I have spent the better part of my life, studying the Civil War, and while I might occasionally miss a date or confuse a name, I know more about this stuff than the average bear.

The biggest problem you have in any of these debates we've had, is that you have this seething bitterness toward Southerners, and your bigotry can't help but pour out. It clouds your ability to think rationally, and understand context of the times, or anything else. You are so consumed with rage and hate toward Southern people, that you simply tell yourself falsities about the war until you believe your own rhetoric. Then you run around and try to prop up your bullshit with smart-ass comments and quips. It doesn't work in debate, you have to stick to facts and keep things in context. You can't be a bigot, you have to get off the stereotype train, and understand, not everyone who lived in the North was good and not everyone who lived in the South was bad. If that were the case, there would have never been an Underground Railroad.

Look... No doubt, the issue of slavery itself, had been in the national forefront for years. It was truly our National shame. But trying to pin it on Southerners or the South, as if they alone were the problem, is just not intellectually honest to any degree. Southerns, for the most part, were no more or less racist than Northerners. There were scant few people in America who honestly believed a negro slave was equal to a white man. That just was not a very common sentiment in the day, and we have to look at history in context of this, rather than pretend some other reality existed. I stand up and defend the South against the bigotry and hatred of people like you, but that doesn't mean I have somehow absolved the South of any wrongdoing or declared their complete innocence in the matter. It's a shared responsibility thing... We are ALL responsible for slavery existing, and for another 100 years of oppression against blacks after that! I will not tolerate ignorant bigots trying to pin the indignities of slavery on the South or misinform people about the war.
 
Hi Dixie. How are you? I think in the novel, Gone With The Wind, it was "butter wont melt in my mouth". I am pretty sure Scarlett said it to herself when she was making her plans to scam another poor fool into marriage. Just a footnote.
 
Darla said:
Hi Dixie. How are you? I think in the novel, Gone With The Wind, it was "butter wont melt in my mouth". I am pretty sure Scarlett said it to herself when she was making her plans to scam another poor fool into marriage. Just a footnote.
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The spoiled brat whom Rhett Butler always laughed at because he knew she was a spoiled brat also had to hustle together the tax money the carpetbaggers and the scalawags were forcing her to pay on her property Tara or else she would have been evicted from it.

That film featured a fictional romantic tale with an accurate historical background.
 
Dixie said:
Come on man, you don't honestly believe that to be the case, do you? I know you are mature enough to understand this was certainly not the reason the South seceded from the Union. I have given you the specifics, we've gone over things in detail, and now you want to throw out "whiny babies" as what the war was about? Grow the fuck up and try to have an adult conversation here. That's just plain embarrassing, you're a grown man.



Again.... Grow the fuck up and stop being petulant because you hate Southern people. I'm sorry you're a bigot who has to judge people on the basis of where they're from or who they are, but you don't have to be a braying ass about it here. You don't improve people's attitudes by killing them. If you were interested in improving attitudes, you could have given black people civil rights during reconstruction, instead of waiting another century. But since we're talking in first person, you didn't do that, did you?



I did not say anything of the sort. I said that Southern states seceded because of the Constitution and the principles of the Declaration of Independence.



No, what you are trying to do, is play the "sugar won't melt in my mouth" game, but since you mouth is full of steaming horse shit, the sugar will definitely melt. Do you understand how Maryland became part of the Union? The Federal government came into Maryland and bought the slaves from the slave owners, purchasing their freedom. They did the same thing in Delaware, although there weren't many slaves to purchase there. However, the Federal offer to buy slaves was not extended to the Deep South, and this is a problem, you see, because you can't work a deal with some slave owners to buy their slave 'property' but not do so for everyone else, because the Constitution requires equal protections under the law.

With the nation expanding west, it became abundantly clear what the game plan had become, add enough "free states" and thus, enough legislative votes, to outlaw slavery once and for all. The South was about to be screwed out of a billion dollars worth of property, and that was in 1860 dollars. Regardless of whether it was right or wrong, these people made legal purchases of legal property (slaves) and the Federal government simply did not have the right to do anything with them. Now we can get all emotive about this, and pretend that 1860 was the same as 1964, but that's just not reality-based, we lived in a totally different world.



Okay, so you finish off with yet another indication of your profound bigotry and prejudice? Are you saying that Southerners were homosexuals, and that's why they started the war? How about stopping yourself from being a total ass, and listen to what I am telling you. I have spent the better part of my life, studying the Civil War, and while I might occasionally miss a date or confuse a name, I know more about this stuff than the average bear.

The biggest problem you have in any of these debates we've had, is that you have this seething bitterness toward Southerners, and your bigotry can't help but pour out. It clouds your ability to think rationally, and understand context of the times, or anything else. You are so consumed with rage and hate toward Southern people, that you simply tell yourself falsities about the war until you believe your own rhetoric. Then you run around and try to prop up your bullshit with smart-ass comments and quips. It doesn't work in debate, you have to stick to facts and keep things in context. You can't be a bigot, you have to get off the stereotype train, and understand, not everyone who lived in the North was good and not everyone who lived in the South was bad. If that were the case, there would have never been an Underground Railroad.

Look... No doubt, the issue of slavery itself, had been in the national forefront for years. It was truly our National shame. But trying to pin it on Southerners or the South, as if they alone were the problem, is just not intellectually honest to any degree. Southerns, for the most part, were no more or less racist than Northerners. There were scant few people in America who honestly believed a negro slave was equal to a white man. That just was not a very common sentiment in the day, and we have to look at history in context of this, rather than pretend some other reality existed. I stand up and defend the South against the bigotry and hatred of people like you, but that doesn't mean I have somehow absolved the South of any wrongdoing or declared their complete innocence in the matter. It's a shared responsibility thing... We are ALL responsible for slavery existing, and for another 100 years of oppression against blacks after that! I will not tolerate ignorant bigots trying to pin the indignities of slavery on the South or misinform people about the war.
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The federal government invaded the confederacy and the soldiers in gray fought for the things King Abraham spouted in his articulate speech: Government of the people, by the people, and for the people.

The confederate soldiers fought for their faith, their firesides, their families, and their land and nothing else.
 
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Look... No doubt, the issue of slavery itself, had been in the national forefront for years. It was truly our National shame. But trying to pin it on Southerners or the South, as if they alone were the problem, is just not intellectually honest to any degree. Southerns, for the most part, were no more or less racist than Northerners. There were scant few people in America who honestly believed a negro slave was equal to a white man. That just was not a very common sentiment in the day, and we have to look at history in context of this, rather than pretend some other reality existed. I stand up and defend the South against the bigotry and hatred of people like you, but that doesn't mean I have somehow absolved the South of any wrongdoing or declared their complete innocence in the matter. It's a shared responsibility thing... We are ALL responsible for slavery existing, and for another 100 years of oppression against blacks after that! I will not tolerate ignorant bigots trying to pin the indignities of slavery on the South or misinform people about the war.



Who did the southerners buy their slaves from?
 
Granule said:
Originally Posted by Taichiliberal
Please post the data from the Census Bureau or the Dept of Labor which state in no uncertain terms what you claim here. Mind you, I don't want your worthless opinion, supposition or conjecture, or yet another op-ed piece from some right wingnut forum. If you can't support your drivel with bonafide, documented facts, then you're just another David Duke wanna be spewing 3rd rate propaganda. Carry on.
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Please post the data from the Census Bureau or the Dept of Labor which state in no uncertain terms that I am "just some willfully ignorant neocon/teabagger parrot trying to justify his own racism and bigotry".

You see, moron, neither of us has the ability to drag government agencies into this debate. It's just not possible. So since your stupid request isn't possible, all that leaves us is our own thoughts and observations.

Try again.
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See folks, when properly challenged, bigoted blowhards like Granule start babbling all types of absurd nonsense in order to hide the fact that they are just full of it.

Granule stated that, "...Approximately 90% of the US African-American contingent are helpless victims. They have become dependent on the DNC, and these shepherds of welfare....."

If Granule is indeed the bringer of truth as he claims, then it should be easy for him to reference the Census or Dept. of Labor stats that show 90% of black Americans are recipients of welfare.

But he can't, and he knows it. So instead he counters with some nonsense about using said agencies to document my personal opinion of him....which any 8th grader knows these agencies (nor any federal agency) are not about such.

My challenge to Granule stands, but I doubt his intellectual cowardice would even permit his admitting error on his part. Let's watch him bluff and bluster.
 
Threedee said:
Back then, NE was still a bastion of Calvinism. It was the most religious spot in America. People hate the Confederacy because it was populated by southerners and traitors.
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It was a bastion of Puritan Christianity.

Which became secular in it's God State beliefs.

It was the foundation of protestant progressivism.
 
philly rabbit said:
Look... No doubt, the issue of slavery itself, had been in the national forefront for years. It was truly our National shame. But trying to pin it on Southerners or the South, as if they alone were the problem, is just not intellectually honest to any degree. Southerns, for the most part, were no more or less racist than Northerners. There were scant few people in America who honestly believed a negro slave was equal to a white man. That just was not a very common sentiment in the day, and we have to look at history in context of this, rather than pretend some other reality existed. I stand up and defend the South against the bigotry and hatred of people like you, but that doesn't mean I have somehow absolved the South of any wrongdoing or declared their complete innocence in the matter. It's a shared responsibility thing... We are ALL responsible for slavery existing, and for another 100 years of oppression against blacks after that! I will not tolerate ignorant bigots trying to pin the indignities of slavery on the South or misinform people about the war.



Who did the southerners buy their slaves from?
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Well it depends on when you are talking about. In 1860, they mostly bought slaves from other slave owners, because the importing of slaves into the US had stopped. We no longer had slave ships and slave markets, where prospective slave owners looked at teeth, etc. That had all gone away by 1860.

It is important to note, and this seems to be a good opportunity, everyone in 1860 America, including slave owners, knew that slavery as an institution was on the way out. It was just a matter of time, because technology had surpassed the need for slaves. When bigots like 3-D start squealing about how "the South just wanted to keep slavery," it's just a stupid meme. They wanted to keep property they rightfully and legally owned, which the Federal government had no legal right to take. To assume 3-Ds premise, you have to believe there was a group of people who decided to declare and fight a war over something they knew was becoming obsolete. Why would any sane person lay down their life for a lost cause?

The war was simply not about the issue of enslaving black people, that issue was being dealt with by society and slavery would have died of natural causes, probably within a generation or so. The issue was whether or not the Federal government had the power to fuck people out of their property without compensation. With recent SCOTUS rulings on imminent domain, it is STILL an issue we deal with!
 
Threedee said:
Back then, NE was still a bastion of Calvinism. It was the most religious spot in America. People hate the Confederacy because it was populated by southerners and traitors.
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Most people don't hate the Confederacy. Most people don't generally "hate" because we learned from our parents it's wrong to hate. A small minority of people are intolerant bigots who prop up their own bigotry and prejudice based on stereotypes, and are too ignorant and stubborn to ever be any other way. You fall into that category, but you are not a fucking majority.
 
Most people don't take the south seriously. It's laughed at far more often than it is taken seriously, and is therefore not an object for hatred. You should feel pride in knowing that I take the south seriously enough to hate. People do still hate the Confederacy, though.

In 1860, there were also those people who viewed slavery as immoral, and the property claim as evil (just like today with abortion). Oddly enough, they didn't pose a threat to slavery, and many were willing to compromise with the south in order to maintain the union. As it happened, the southerners were a bunch of whiny little faggots who didn't like being called out, and seceded.
 
Threedee said:
Most people don't take the south seriously. It's laughed at far more often than it is taken seriously, and is therefore not an object for hatred. You should feel pride in knowing that I take the south seriously enough to hate. People do still hate the Confederacy, though.
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Wow, an open admission that you are a bigot and don't care what anyone thinks about it. Amazing. What the living fuck do you mean by "take the South seriously?" You mean as an entity functioning as a ghost government in the backwoods? What the fuck are you talking about? The South is a region of the United States of America, you wouldn't say people don't take the Northeast seriously! Take them seriously? You mean anyone who lives south of the Mason Dixon can not be taken seriously? On anything at any time, ever? WOW!

In 1860, there were also those people who viewed slavery as immoral, and the property claim as evil (just like today with abortion). Oddly enough, they didn't pose a threat to slavery, and many were willing to compromise with the south in order to maintain the union. As it happened, the southerners were a bunch of whiny little faggots who didn't like being called out, and seceded.
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In 1860, there were maybe 1% or less of the population, who felt that black slaves were human beings who deserved every right of white human beings. Most of these people were in the Pennsylvania area, and were Dutch Quaker. That's a part of their religious philosophy, and the only reason they held such a view. For the most part, America was extremely "racist" by today's standards. Yes, many people viewed slavery as immoral, just as many people today view gambling as immoral, but slavery was legal. It was not, as you describe, a "property claim" as this was determined by the SCOTUS in Dred Scott. It was not about a "threat to slavery" that the South was concerned with, it was property rights, and the US Courts had determined that slaves were property, it was not a Southern "claim" but a matter of SCOTUS ruling.

You must understand, it wasn't so easy to just say slavery is wrong and we shouldn't do that. We can look at it today and say that, because we have the enlightenment of history, and live in a different time. In 1860, it wasn't that easy to just up and end slavery. First of all, we had established an institution and way of life for many people, relying on slave labor. Not just Southerner plantation owners benefited, the northern textile industry depended on Southern cotton, it made millionaires of shipping tycoons and exporters, and indeed, the nation itself, because cotton was our primary economic engine at the time. Well, you can't pick cotton without slaves, so how the hell do you free them? We overlooked the human indignity of slavery for the economic good of white folks. That's the truth of the matter, and it's something you never can realize or understand, if you have cast all blame and responsibility on the dirty South.
 
Taichiliberal said:
See folks, when properly challenged, bigoted blowhards like Granule start babbling all types of absurd nonsense in order to hide the fact that they are just full of it.

Granule stated that, "...Approximately 90% of the US African-American contingent are helpless victims. They have become dependent on the DNC, and these shepherds of welfare....."

If Granule is indeed the bringer of truth as he claims, then it should be easy for him to reference the Census or Dept. of Labor stats that show 90% of black Americans are recipients of welfare.

But he can't, and he knows it. So instead he counters with some nonsense about using said agencies to document my personal opinion of him....which any 8th grader knows these agencies (nor any federal agency) are not about such.

My challenge to Granule stands, but I doubt his intellectual cowardice would even permit his admitting error on his part. Let's watch him bluff and bluster.
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What's important to recognize here, is that touchyliberal is a disingenuous asshole. Nowhere did I infer that 90% of blacks are on welfare. My message was to convey that approximately 90% of blacks are liberals and they've been conditioned to believe that they are victims of white conservatives. Of course, anyone who is NOT a disingenuous asshole, knows that is total bullshit. In essence, they have grown dependent on guidance from the DNC. The irony here is, that the Left has been grooming black liberals for government welfare while they've been feeding blacks this 'white devil' nonsense. The thing I find confusing, is why are so many black Americans stupid enough to lap up this deceptive horse shit?
 
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