What is affordable gov run health care?

[Mott the Hoople]

So why are 43 million Americans worried about not having health insurance? Who needs it?

Hell I have insurance and I'm still worried sick. My employers insurance is an HSA with a $3000 annual deductable (it would be $7000 but my wife has her own insurance so I don't have to carry family) and then I have to make a 20% copay after I've met my deductible. It's virtually worthless unless there's a medical disaster and so now primary care has become damned near unaffordable for me and fuck our household income is near 100k....I can only imagine what people who are earning the median who have kids must be going through. Something has to be done.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

It's really an indirect wasy for Obama to redistribute more wealth from the rich to the poor. There is no real effort to reduce cost, it's about reducing paymnets from the bottom third to the ohter 2/3.

If that was true then how comes it's corporate American that is driving reform. I've talked with executive leadership with my employer about what they think of health insurance companies and their reply wasn't very Christian. They hate the MoFo's with a passion. If my company had the choice between our current system and paying a 5% tax and deducting 5% of their employees wages (10% total) to pay for HC reform they would do it in a heart beat. Right now they pay 15 to 16% of their overhead is paying for Health Care for their employees with all indications that will soon be around 20% of over head. Considering how slim EBIDTA and Gross Margins are at the corporate level this is a near crippling burden. What will drive HC reform is the rest of the corporations in this nation will gang up against Wall Street and the health insurance industry/lobby to defeat them.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

So why are 43 million Americans worried about not having health insurance? Who needs it?

You don't really need it. Every hospital operating in America is subject to indigent care laws, we also passed that a few decades ago, to address the problem of people who can't afford health care. If your appendix ruptures and you need immediate medical attention, it's there, all you have to do is call 911. No one is ever left to die, not treated and cared for, or having to "worry" about that. It's available to any American who can't pay, and even NON-Americans who illegally crossed our borders! No one is refused emergency care in America, under any circumstance. We've made that the law of the land in all states.

Your numbers keep going up... now we have 43 million? Well, if after all we've done over the past 50 years to help people and take care of things like this, we've STILL got 43 million who need help? ...then I say fuck it! We're not getting anywhere, so why bother? Maybe we should try something different for a change? Let's start by getting these lawyers off my TV every 15 minutes, asking me if I ever took some drug...I may be entitled to compensation! Do you not think all those billions of dollars in lawsuits don't effect the COST of health care? I mean, regardless of who is going to pay for it... don't you think that kind of shit needs to stop anyway? You literally have CON ARTISTS bilking the system for millions of dollars every year, and nothing is being done to stop it or prevent it.

Obama tried to reduce cost by recommending a government option.

Another quick way to reduce costs would be for the government to negotiate drug prices for medicare/medicaid but some folks put the kibosh on that.

What is darkly humorous is people say they're searching and struggling for ways to reduce costs when dozens of countries have already figured it out; government medical. There are dozens of variations, all tried and proven.

None are proven to do anything except bankrupt their nations, from what I see. All across Europe, these "gubment systems" you love so much, are driving their economies in the toilet, and most are now scrambling to re-introduce capitalism, to save the failing system. You live in some fucked up delusional pinhead fantasy world, where everyone is taken care of always and no one has any needs, and we all have a rainbow pony and cotton candy! Sooner or later, you need to face reality and understand, we can't take care of anyone if we are BROKE!

 

[Topspin]

If that was true then how comes it's corporate American that is driving reform. I've talked with executive leadership with my employer about what they think of health insurance companies and their reply wasn't very Christian. They hate the MoFo's with a passion. If my company had the choice between our current system and paying a 5% tax and deducting 5% of their employees wages (10% total) to pay for HC reform they would do it in a heart beat. Right now they pay 15 to 16% of their overhead is paying for Health Care for their employees with all indications that will soon be around 20% of over head. Considering how slim EBIDTA and Gross Margins are at the corporate level this is a near crippling burden. What will drive HC reform is the rest of the corporations in this nation will gang up against Wall Street and the health insurance industry/lobby to defeat them.

HC is not redistribution cause corp America doesn't like it. Fuck Mott your economics is slower than the luckeye's secondary.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

HC is not redistribution cause corp America doesn't like it. Fuck Mott your economics is slower than the luckeye's secondary.

Then you're not talking to the right people. The quality of health care insurance keeps dropping dramatically. The only way insurance companies can meet the Streets demands for short term profits is to deny people access to health care while simultaneously increasing prices. It has gotten to the point where you average schmuck can't afford even afford primary or preventative care. Now tell me, you don't think there's a role for government somewhere to help solve this problem?

 

[Topspin]

Then you're not talking to the right people. The quality of health care insurance keeps dropping dramatically. The only way insurance companies can meet the Streets demands for short term profits is to deny people access to health care while simultaneously increasing prices. It has gotten to the point where you average schmuck can't afford even afford primary or preventative care. Now tell me, you don't think there's a role for government somewhere to help solve this problem?

your not living in reality, my hc is fine
the cost drivers are Dr (average salary $250,000), pharma , hospitals, and insurance.
The turbo-libs needed a bandit, now that thier bs attack on Exxon was played out the new buggy man is HC ins.
Don't give me bs San Fran talking points. How come people are not opting to not buy the shitty service?

 

[Mott the Hoople]

your not living in reality, my hc is fine
the cost drivers are Dr (average salary $250,000), pharma , hospitals, and insurance.
The turbo-libs needed a bandit, now that thier bs attack on Exxon was played out the new buggy man is HC ins.
Don't give me bs San Fran talking points. How come people are not opting to not buy the shitty service?

Well maybe your HC is fine but mine is fucked up and there's a whole shit load of people who are in that boat and we aint exactly poor either. Our current HC system is not tenable either politically or economically and you will be seeing more changes to come. That's a fact.

 

[Topspin]

it's all hype by the left blogesphere
it's the boggey man's insurance companies fault, not the doctor making $250,000 or the nurse making 75,000. No it's not pharma's fault with drug cost, it's not keeping someone on lifesupport.
It's hillarious, why are people not rejecting insurance companies in droves. There are other companies to go to.
Thanks for the comedy turbo-libs

 

[DamnYankee]

Topshit, I'm surprised you're still here after being pwned so badly by BFGRN.

 

[apple0154]

You don't really need it. Every hospital operating in America is subject to indigent care laws, we also passed that a few decades ago, to address the problem of people who can't afford health care. If your appendix ruptures and you need immediate medical attention, it's there, all you have to do is call 911. No one is ever left to die, not treated and cared for, or having to "worry" about that. It's available to any American who can't pay, and even NON-Americans who illegally crossed our borders! No one is refused emergency care in America, under any circumstance. We've made that the law of the land in all states.

Yes, emergency care. Care after the damage is done such as with diabetes. People who are not aware they have the illness suffer degenerative vision and sores that don't heal. Or those who have hypertension who end up having a stroke and being paralyzed for life.

Your numbers keep going up... now we have 43 million? Well, if after all we've done over the past 50 years to help people and take care of things like this, we've STILL got 43 million who need help? ...then I say fuck it! We're not getting anywhere, so why bother?

Yes, all the things that have been done. All the things that have been tried. The problem is the problem has never been properly addressed. The proof is there is still a problem. Everything has been tried except doing what dozens of other countries have already done.

None are proven to do anything except bankrupt their nations, from what I see. All across Europe, these "gubment systems" you love so much, are driving their economies in the toilet, and most are now scrambling to re-introduce capitalism, to save the failing system. You live in some fucked up delusional pinhead fantasy world, where everyone is taken care of always and no one has any needs, and we all have a rainbow pony and cotton candy! Sooner or later, you need to face reality and understand, we can't take care of anyone if we are BROKE!

The proof is every country with a medical plan pay approximately 1/3 less. How would saving 1/3 add to bankrupting a country?

Your argument is illogical.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Yes, emergency care. Care after the damage is done such as with diabetes. People who are not aware they have the illness suffer degenerative vision and sores that don't heal. Or those who have hypertension who end up having a stroke and being paralyzed for life.

Well I really don't give a flying fuck about people who aren't sick yet! I have no problem with having a system which treats those who are sick, but now you're not talking about that anymore, you are speculating that people MIGHT get sick, and we have to take care of all their needs too! Well, I might get sick and not be able to work and pay taxes, so what are you going to do then? We might ALL get sick, some sort of plague might cross America, and make us all deathly ill... what are we going to do then? How are we going to care for everyone's every need, if we're all sick and can't work? You see, we can go down this "silly hypothetical" road all day long, it still leads to incompetent idiocy and a not very well thought out plan.

Yes, all the things that have been done. All the things that have been tried. The problem is the problem has never been properly addressed. The proof is there is still a problem. Everything has been tried except doing what dozens of other countries have already done.

No, we've tried that too, remember... we just went over all of that... you are pretending we never established state health clinics and indigent care laws again. It's been "properly addressed" to the tune of several trillion dollars over the past 40-50 years, so why not try some stuff that doesn't cost the taxpayer money?

The proof is every country with a medical plan pay approximately 1/3 less. How would saving 1/3 add to bankrupting a country?

Your argument is illogical.

Sorry, but there was nothing in Obamacare about mandatory reduction in cost of health care by 33%.... didn't see that in the 2000+ pages. All you did was shift the burden of who pays for health care, you did nothing about the COST of health care. With the government footing the bill, I would imagine the costs would RISE, not decrease. How often do we hear of $500 toilet seats, because it's a "government contract?" What you have saddled us with, is a massive boondoggle and untenable health care system we simply can't afford, which will inherently drive down the quality and availability of care in America. But you are too ignorant to understand that, because some tiny European socialist nation is able to do government-run health care with a FRACTION of the people we have in America, and without a sue-happy society driving costs through the roof.

 

[apple0154]

Well I really don't give a flying fuck about people who aren't sick yet! I have no problem with having a system which treats those who are sick, but now you're not talking about that anymore, you are speculating that people MIGHT get sick, and we have to take care of all their needs too! Well, I might get sick and not be able to work and pay taxes, so what are you going to do then? We might ALL get sick, some sort of plague might cross America, and make us all deathly ill... what are we going to do then? How are we going to care for everyone's every need, if we're all sick and can't work? You see, we can go down this "silly hypothetical" road all day long, it still leads to incompetent idiocy and a not very well thought out plan.

Obviously you have difficulty with comprehension. The people I mentioned are ill. The problem is they don't know. Uncontrolled diabetes will lead to vision deterioration and other problems before one becomes fully aware of them. High blood pressure will lead to heart attack and stroke before one is aware of it.

No, we've tried that too, remember... we just went over all of that... you are pretending we never established state health clinics and indigent care laws again. It's been "properly addressed" to the tune of several trillion dollars over the past 40-50 years, so why not try some stuff that doesn't cost the taxpayer money?

Let me dumb this down for you. Can the average person get a medical check-up for free? Can the average citizen who suspects something is medically wrong get free medical care?

Sorry, but there was nothing in Obamacare about mandatory reduction in cost of health care by 33%.... didn't see that in the 2000+ pages. All you did was shift the burden of who pays for health care, you did nothing about the COST of health care. With the government footing the bill, I would imagine the costs would RISE, not decrease. How often do we hear of $500 toilet seats, because it's a "government contract?" What you have saddled us with, is a massive boondoggle and untenable health care system we simply can't afford, which will inherently drive down the quality and availability of care in America. But you are too ignorant to understand that, because some tiny European socialist nation is able to do government-run health care with a FRACTION of the people we have in America, and without a sue-happy society driving costs through the roof.

Of course there's nothing in Obama care about 33% savings because the opposition wouldn't allow full government medical. That's where the savings are. However, as certain aspects of Obama care go into effect and the people actually experience the benefits the plan will slowly change into a proper government plan.

As for some tiny, sociallist nation implementing health care there are dozens of countries which have government helath care. Big and small. Capitalist and communist. And socialist, too. Rich and poor nations and every one, without exception, never reverted to the old "pay or suffer" system. Not one exception.

Your argument is without any basis.

 

[NOVA]

Yeah...and you're an example of what happens to those with a mental illness that doesn't get treatment.....

Your post get nuttier by the day...still lookin' for that free lunch, huh ?

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Obviously you have difficulty with comprehension. The people I mentioned are ill. The problem is they don't know. Uncontrolled diabetes will lead to vision deterioration and other problems before one becomes fully aware of them. High blood pressure will lead to heart attack and stroke before one is aware of it.

Completely destroying the private health care system to replace it with a government-run health care system, will not cause one single solitary person to be more proactive in checking their blood pressure and have diabetes screenings. Two completely different things which have little to nothing to do with each other. Government health care is not going to take away the risk of stroke, or let anyone know they are in danger of a stroke or heart attack. These are things the individual has to take the initiative with, and nothing the government can ever do, will help achieve that. Oh, we can run a few PSAs, but that's about all we can do, really.

Let me dumb this down for you. Can the average person get a medical check-up for free? Can the average citizen who suspects something is medically wrong get free medical care?

And let me dumb it down for you.... YES the average person can go to ANY State Health Clinic and have a physical exam done at little to no cost, and if they are a Medicaid recipient, there is no charge at all. No one can get free medical care, no such thing exists! Everyone's medical care COSTS MONEY for someone! Doctors don't work for free, hospitals are not non-profit charities!

Of course there's nothing in Obama care about 33% savings because the opposition wouldn't allow full government medical. That's where the savings are. However, as certain aspects of Obama care go into effect and the people actually experience the benefits the plan will slowly change into a proper government plan.

Let's get something straight you little lying fucktard... NO REPUBLICAN voted for Obamacare! NONE!
Don't try to blame the lack of a public option on Republicans, it was DEMOCRATS who couldn't all get on board with the public option... Republicans weren't going to vote for it WITH or WITHOUT!

And I don't give a damn what you CLAIM will be the case, a government-run health care system is NOT going to cost less, because there is nothing in your plan to control or curb costs. Obamacare is never going into effect, it will be REPEALED in January 2012, if the SCOTUS doesn't do away with it sooner. So you best be coming up with Plan B on that, and stop dreaming.

As for some tiny, sociallist nation implementing health care there are dozens of countries which have government helath care. Big and small. Capitalist and communist. And socialist, too. Rich and poor nations and every one, without exception, never reverted to the old "pay or suffer" system. Not one exception.

Your argument is without any basis.

There are ZERO countries the size of the United States, with a government-run health care system. The countries who are comparatively close in size to the US, are struggling with their systems, which are wholly inadequate in terms of availability and quality. Several countries, like Canada, have re-introduced capitalist measures to shore up the failing system and handle the backlog of people who can't get any kind of health care, even emergency services!

 

[Liberty]

What is affordabel gov run health care?

Cocaine on a stick.

Most people won't give up a bad thing if it's the best they have, and all they know.

 

[Topspin]

It's a pipedream expertly used as a political wedge to get wealth redistribution at it's highest level ever passed. FACT

 

[Mott the Hoople]

it's all hype by the left blogesphere
it's the boggey man's insurance companies fault, not the doctor making $250,000 or the nurse making 75,000. No it's not pharma's fault with drug cost, it's not keeping someone on lifesupport.
It's hillarious, why are people not rejecting insurance companies in droves. There are other companies to go to.
Thanks for the comedy turbo-libs

I didn't say it was all the insurance companies fault but they are the main source of opposition preventing reform.

Certainly cost control in terms of what wages are paid, what can be charged for services, how technology is managed and applied and even what medical procedures work and which don't and when they should be applied and when not, etc, etc, etc.

You are confusing the economic factors driving up the cost of health care and creating the need for reform with who is behind the political opposition to reform and has played a major role in preventing reform. The Health Insurance/HMO Companies.

 

[Topspin]

LOFL, I don't care what you are saying. What are the turbo-lib socialist (the democrats) saying.

 

[apple0154]

Completely destroying the private health care system to replace it with a government-run health care system, will not cause one single solitary person to be more proactive in checking their blood pressure and have diabetes screenings. Two completely different things which have little to nothing to do with each other. Government health care is not going to take away the risk of stroke, or let anyone know they are in danger of a stroke or heart attack. These are things the individual has to take the initiative with, and nothing the government can ever do, will help achieve that. Oh, we can run a few PSAs, but that's about all we can do, really.

Of course a government run system would encourage people to go for a check-up. Who is going to visit a doctor if they feel fine and the visit would cost over $200.00, including a blood test.

And let me dumb it down for you.... YES the average person can go to ANY State Health Clinic and have a physical exam done at little to no cost, and if they are a Medicaid recipient, there is no charge at all. No one can get free medical care, no such thing exists! Everyone's medical care COSTS MONEY for someone! Doctors don't work for free, hospitals are not non-profit charities!

Police services cost money but we don't pay for the Police to come to our home if there has been a robbery. Imagine being involved in a traffic accident and the attending Police demanded payment before filling out an accident report. Or living in a city and having a fire. The Fire Department demanding payment or proof of insurance before starting to put out the fire.

As for the State health clinic could the average citizen get their broken arm fixed for free?

Let's get something straight you little lying fucktard... NO REPUBLICAN voted for Obamacare! NONE!
Don't try to blame the lack of a public option on Republicans, it was DEMOCRATS who couldn't all get on board with the public option... Republicans weren't going to vote for it WITH or WITHOUT!

I know the Repubs wouldn't vote for it, regardless. That's the barbaric animals they are.

And I don't give a damn what you CLAIM will be the case, a government-run health care system is NOT going to cost less, because there is nothing in your plan to control or curb costs. Obamacare is never going into effect, it will be REPEALED in January 2012, if the SCOTUS doesn't do away with it sooner. So you best be coming up with Plan B on that, and stop dreaming.

Costs would go down if a full government run sysyem was in place.

There are ZERO countries the size of the United States, with a government-run health care system. The countries who are comparatively close in size to the US, are struggling with their systems, which are wholly inadequate in terms of availability and quality. Several countries, like Canada, have re-introduced capitalist measures to shore up the failing system and handle the backlog of people who can't get any kind of health care, even emergency services!

We've been over this before. Every country says they're struggling, however, they are paying 1/3 less than the US for medical care. Increase their budgets by 1/3 and then compare.

They complain if medical care rises 5% or 7% or 10%. Maybe raise the budget 33% and then see what happens.

It's simply a matter of priorities. Every National Park maintenance person is one less hospital cleaner. Every park monument is a dozen hospital beds. Instead of looking at present expenses and then determining if there is money for medical services start with medical services and then see what money is left over, unless looking after the ill is not a national priority.

Of course, we all know the Republican handbook. Fighting for the rights of fetuses and going on about the sanctity of life but when it comes to helping the ill and destitute.....oh, well. No money for that.

 

[Liberty]

LOFL, I don't care what you are saying. What are the turbo-lib socialist (the democrats) saying.

They're saying, "they have a right to your property".