What some of Trump’s former legal defenders are saying

Tinkerpeach said:
Once Trump takes them they become his private property so nobody can request them
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That's just not true. They are the property of the archives.

https://www.factcheck.org/2022/02/former-presidents-are-not-allowed-to-take-home-official-records/

"The Presidential Records Act, or PRA, governs the maintenance of presidential records. It was passed in 1978, after former President Richard Nixon sought to destroy recordings made in the White House that documented activities related to the Watergate scandal, David S. Ferriero, archivist of the United States who is in charge of NARA, explained in a 2017 publication for the National Archives.

When a president leaves office, the archivist takes custody of the records from that administration and is responsible for their preservation and for providing access to the public, according to a Congressional Research Service report.

“The Presidential Records Act requires that all records created by presidents be turned over to the National Archives at the end of their administrations,” NARA said in its Jan. 31 statement.
 
Tinkerpeach said:
Nothing is classified if Trump says it isn’t

There is no case here
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m4wuMRY.jpg
 
QP! said:
That is false as proven in those cases where Trump had control of the doc's he spoke about, at various points.


Beyond that do you understand that what Trump and others get are copies. At any given time what Trump holds would be one of 12 or more copies of the same doc being reviewed by many other individuals. So stretch your logic out, and the minute Trump takes them, all the other people can then share their copies with anyone as Trump automatically declassified them, by taking them.

Do you understand how asinine that is? How stupid that is?
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Others are not allowed to share documents even if they are declassified

They must follow department guidelines and no agency allows employees to simply share department information without authorization

Trump doesn’t need authorization
 
Tinkerpeach said:
Others are not allowed to share documents even if they are declassified

They must follow department guidelines and no agency allows employees to simply share department information without authorization

Trump doesn’t need authorization
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Nothing you say is based in any fact or truth.

Yes if gov't documents are not classified they can be shared and read by those in gov't and are subject to FOIA requests. As gov't documents are the people's documents and only restricted from our view when classified.

So on that you are wrong. Factually wrong.

Trump does not need authorization but he DOES need to follow the declassification process and when he does not, no matter what he says, writes or thinks the material remains classified. As all 3 precedent cases prove.

As pointed out prior...



That is factually inaccurate as proven by Trump and his White House lawyers and Mark Meadows in the only 3 precedent cases that exist in this general area of law.

In all 3 instances Trump had stated in Tv interview (words) and on Twitter (official writings) that certain doc's had been declassified by him.

In all 3 instances the Media said, 'ok good. Since you declassified them, we want to see them. Here is a FOIA request. Hand them over'.

In all 3 instances the Trump White House, supported by Trump, argued in court, Trump words on TV or Trump official Writings (twitter) are NOT sufficient to declassify anything. That a second REQUIRED step is needed where Trump instructs the agencies responsible to take the steps to actually declassify them and since Trump HAD NOT done that in any of these 3 cases, they remained classified.

In all 3 cases the Judges agree with the Trump Team arguments and denied the media the documents which remained classified.


- James Madison Project v. U.S. Dep't of Justice
- LEOPOLD et al v. U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE et al, No. 1:2019cv01278 - Document 86 (D.D.C. 2020)
- The New York Times, et al., v. Central Intelligence Agency
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Yakuda said:
Up to 12 years to decide what's a private record and what's a presidential record. Learn to read and the actually think. You're exactly the kind of person Rod Serling was taking about on that other thread.
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Can you direct us to anything that specifically says that?
If you can I will permanently leave this board. That should give you motivation handjob.
 
floridafan said:
Can you direct us to anything that specifically says that?
If you can I will permanently leave this board. That should give you motivation handjob.
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Sure.

First of all we all know that's a load of leftist horse shit. No matter I provide you will claim it doesnt say what it clearly says. Next even if by some act of God you actually accepted it you STILL wouldn't leave because leftists have no fucking integrity. So basically there is no virtue in saying you will do something when there is a zero chance you would actually do it.

Now that we have your lying bullshit out of the way

https://www.archives.gov/presidential-libraries/laws/1978-act.html

"Establishes a process by which the President may restrict and the public may obtain access to these records after the President leaves office; specifically, the PRA allows for public access to Presidential records through the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) beginning five years after the end of the Administration, but allows the President to invoke as many as six specific restrictions to public access for up to twelve years."
 
LurchAddams said:
The law says that once a president leaves office, all presidential records become the property of the US Archives.
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Incorrect

https://www.archives.gov/presidential-libraries/laws/1978-act.html

"Establishes in law that any incumbent Presidential records (whether textual or electronic) held on courtesy storage by the Archivist remain in the exclusive legal custody of the President and that any request or order for access to such records must be made to the President, not NARA."

The records remain in the "...exclusive legal custody of the President..."
 
Yakuda said:
Sure.

First of all we all know that's a load of leftist horse shit. No matter I provide you will claim it doesnt say what it clearly says. Next even if by some act of God you actually accepted it you STILL wouldn't leave because leftists have no fucking integrity. So basically there is no virtue in saying you will do something when there is a zero chance you would actually do it.

Now that we have your lying bullshit out of the way

https://www.archives.gov/presidential-libraries/laws/1978-act.html

"Establishes a process by which the President may restrict and the public may obtain access to these records after the President leaves office; specifically, the PRA allows for public access to Presidential records through the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) beginning five years after the end of the Administration, but allows the President to invoke as many as six specific restrictions to public access for up to twelve years."
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Not a word about 12 years, you lying cunt, and you know damn well you are lying
 
LurchAddams said:
That's just not true. They are the property of the archives.

https://www.factcheck.org/2022/02/former-presidents-are-not-allowed-to-take-home-official-records/

"The Presidential Records Act, or PRA, governs the maintenance of presidential records. It was passed in 1978, after former President Richard Nixon sought to destroy recordings made in the White House that documented activities related to the Watergate scandal, David S. Ferriero, archivist of the United States who is in charge of NARA, explained in a 2017 publication for the National Archives.

When a president leaves office, the archivist takes custody of the records from that administration and is responsible for their preservation and for providing access to the public, according to a Congressional Research Service report.

“The Presidential Records Act requires that all records created by presidents be turned over to the National Archives at the end of their administrations,” NARA said in its Jan. 31 statement.
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The archivist deals with the original documents, Trump only has copies
 
Tinkerpeach said:
The archivist deals with the original documents, Trump only has copies
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Correct. And the presidential records act says

"Establishes in law that any incumbent Presidential records (whether textual or electronic) held on courtesy storage by the Archivist remain in the exclusive legal custody of the President and that any request or order for access to such records must be made to the President, not NARA."

The documents remain in the exclusive legal custody of the president and if you want to seem then you have to ask the president not the archivist
 
Yakuda said:
Up to 12 years to decide what's a private record and what's a presidential record.
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So ex-President Trump has 10 more years to decide if Pentagon documents relating to a possible attack on Iran are his private property or a presidential record? Meanwhile, he can show it off to his golf buddies.

Wow, I bet Dershowitz and Barr didn't know that! They think there's something called the Espionage Act, see.
 
Tranquillus in Exile said:
So ex-President Trump has 10 more years to decide if Pentagon documents relating to a possible attack on Iran are his private property or a presidential record? Meanwhile, he can show it off to his golf buddies.

Wow, I bet Dershowitz and Barr didn't know that! They think there's something called the Espionage Act, see.
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Right. All you have to do now is prove he conveyed the info to his golf buddies with the intent to do harm to America. Good luck.
 
Yakuda said:
Incorrect

https://www.archives.gov/presidential-libraries/laws/1978-act.html

"Establishes in law that any incumbent Presidential records (whether textual or electronic) held on courtesy storage by the Archivist remain in the exclusive legal custody of the President and that any request or order for access to such records must be made to the President, not NARA."

The records remain in the "...exclusive legal custody of the President..."
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From your link:

"Establishes that Presidential records automatically transfer into the legal custody of the Archivist as soon as the President leaves office."
 
Tinkerpeach said:
The archivist deals with the original documents, Trump only has copies
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Even if that were true, that the president "only took copies", please post your evidence of that. You can't just say stuff without proof. Also, if they were just copies, why was our National Archives screaming for them back for 18 months?
 
Yakuda said:
Correct. And the presidential records act says

"Establishes in law that any incumbent Presidential records (whether textual or electronic) held on courtesy storage by the Archivist remain in the exclusive legal custody of the President and that any request or order for access to such records must be made to the President, not NARA."

The documents remain in the exclusive legal custody of the president and if you want to seem then you have to ask the president not the archivist
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you realize Trump is not president, right?
 
Tranquillus in Exile said:
So ex-President Trump has 10 more years to decide if Pentagon documents relating to a possible attack on Iran are his private property or a presidential record? Meanwhile, he can show it off to his golf buddies.

Wow, I bet Dershowitz and Barr didn't know that! They think there's something called the Espionage Act, see.
Click to expand...

The espionage act is a wartime policy, it has no relevance here
 
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