When Does Life End?
- Thread starter Timshel
- Start date
The brain, in its earliest stage, is present at conception...do you deny this?
Dolly was not the product of a piece of flesh that was stuck in the vagina of a sheep. It required a very complex type of molecular biological science. Your attempt to compare cloning with the natural proccess of human developement where killing the unborn baby is in question is specious!
Yes you are.
The heart has it's own pace maker. It can be removed and continue to beat so long as it has oxygen.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2001-10-06-heart.htm
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/05/070517105408.htm
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
Because it is a HUMAN LIFE and as such, deserves the right to LIFE!
It doesn't matter if 99.99999999999999% are aborted! That doesn't ever change what they ARE!
Hitler incinerated 7 million Jews, did that make them any less human? Does that justify allowing abortionists to terminate the life of 40 million people since Roe v. Wade?
"The Father of Modern Genetics" Testifies
Dr. Jerome Lejeune, known as "The Father of Modern Genetics," also testified that human life begins at conception before the Louisiana Legislature's House Committee on the Administration of Criminal Justice on June 7, 1990.
Dr. Lejeune explained that within three to seven days after fertilization we can determine if the new human being is a boy or a girl. "At no time," Dr. Lejeune said, "is the human being a blob of protoplasm. As far as your nature is concerned, I see no difference between the early person that you were at conception and the late person which you are now. You were, and are, a human being."
Dr. Lejeune also pointed out that each human being is unique -- different from the mother -- from the moment of conception. He said, "Recent discoveries by Dr. Alec Jeffreys of England demonstrate that this information [on the DNA molecule] is stored by a system of bar codes not unlike those found on products at the supermarket...it's not any longer a theory that each of us is unique."
Dr. Jerome Lejeune died on April 3, 1994. Dr. Lejeune of Paris, France was a medical doctor, a Doctor of Science and a professor of Fundamental Genetics for over twenty years. Dr. Lejeune discovered the genetic cause of Down Syndrome, receiving the Kennedy Prize for the discovery and, in addition, received the Memorial Allen Award Medal, the world's highest award for work in the field of Genetics. He practiced his profession at the Hôpital des Enfants Malades (Sick Children's Hospital) in Paris. Dr. Lejeune was a member of the American Academy of the Arts and Science, a member of the Royal Society of Medicine in London, The Royal Society of Science in Stockholm, the Science Academy in Italy and Argentina, The Pontifical Academy of Science and The Academy of Medicine in France.
Human at 8 Weeks
Tiny Human Feet (10 weeks after conception)
Dr. Jerome Lejeune, known as "The Father of Modern Genetics," also testified that human life begins at conception before the Louisiana Legislature's House Committee on the Administration of Criminal Justice on June 7, 1990.
Dr. Lejeune explained that within three to seven days after fertilization we can determine if the new human being is a boy or a girl. "At no time," Dr. Lejeune said, "is the human being a blob of protoplasm. As far as your nature is concerned, I see no difference between the early person that you were at conception and the late person which you are now. You were, and are, a human being."
Dr. Lejeune also pointed out that each human being is unique -- different from the mother -- from the moment of conception. He said, "Recent discoveries by Dr. Alec Jeffreys of England demonstrate that this information [on the DNA molecule] is stored by a system of bar codes not unlike those found on products at the supermarket...it's not any longer a theory that each of us is unique."
Dr. Jerome Lejeune died on April 3, 1994. Dr. Lejeune of Paris, France was a medical doctor, a Doctor of Science and a professor of Fundamental Genetics for over twenty years. Dr. Lejeune discovered the genetic cause of Down Syndrome, receiving the Kennedy Prize for the discovery and, in addition, received the Memorial Allen Award Medal, the world's highest award for work in the field of Genetics. He practiced his profession at the Hôpital des Enfants Malades (Sick Children's Hospital) in Paris. Dr. Lejeune was a member of the American Academy of the Arts and Science, a member of the Royal Society of Medicine in London, The Royal Society of Science in Stockholm, the Science Academy in Italy and Argentina, The Pontifical Academy of Science and The Academy of Medicine in France.
Human at 8 Weeks
Tiny Human Feet (10 weeks after conception)
It's not the same at all. The sound knowledge that left alone to develope a human being will be born at some point in a pregnancy. The Schiavo case was that a miracle or advance in medicine "might" happen.
The term "potential" is a misnomer with regards to the abortion argument. After conception there is an absolute life, not a potential one in a womans womb. The potentiallity is only what it might do with its life if allowed to live. We absolutely KNOW it will have NO potential if killed.
DamnYankee
Loyal to the end
Perhaps you should use another word instead of trying to redefine one.
DamnYankee
Loyal to the end
I am.
Yes. The instructions are there and there is some genetic material. Obviously, there is going to be growth in the genetic material as the baby feeds. Since the brain will far outweigh the zygote, obviously much the material is not present. Whether some part of the genetic material that was present at conception ends up in the brain, I don't know and I don't know we can answer that.
WTF ru talking about?
The point is, that all that is needed is some genetic material. Specialized or specific cells are not necessary, as you claimed.
I don't argue against that right. I argue that we shouldn't remove it with the intent to kill it. We waste an opportunity to learn to actually give women a choice to incubate or to have the baby incubated outside the womb... This isn't some religious stance, I just don't like to see opportunities like this wasted. I also don't like to have the intent of an action be to kill human progeny at any stage.
The fact is that ALL the material that is specific for the brain and only to the brain is all there at the moment of conception, not just "some". So too are all the genectic material for each and every neccesary part of each human being PRESENT at conception. What you are now you were then.
No, the cloning of something is not the same as your earlier inference that any old pice of DNA was equivalent to a human embryo. Even Dolly needed a male and female counterpart to specifically create an embryo. The fact that we can extract DNA does not due away with the need to then procreate it!
apple0154
MEOW
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA :lol: :lmao:That's definitely the concluding answer to this thread.
This is nonsense, not even one of the definitions you provide says that a cell is not alive. Your point is lost because you are not careful enough with language.
apple0154
MEOW
The brain, in its earliest stage, is present at conception...do you deny this?
Dolly was not the product of a piece of flesh that was stuck in the vagina of a sheep. It required a very complex type of molecular biological science. Your attempt to compare cloning with the natural proccess of human developement where killing the unborn baby is in question is specious!
"a piece of flesh that was stuck in the vagina" I think you mentioned something about fingers before. All I can say thank goodness that doesn't produce offspring because a lot of high school girls would be mothers!
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
And this is really about all you are good for in this debate, interjecting some juvenile quip which you believe is funny, but is just plain stupid and sophomoric. You may have a future as a clown, but leave the grown up debates for the adults.
apple0154
MEOW
You still don't get it. We don't know what they are. We don't know if the proper components are there.
Let me spell this out for you. Babies have been born with no arms. While they are human beings with no arms we had no idea they would be born without arms until they were born or it showed up on an image. We certainly didn't know the moment the egg was fertilized.
Cells may be fertilized but the necessary components for those cells to develop into a human being may not be present. Stated another way they may not be human beings. We do not know.
Science tells us over 50% of fertilized cells spontaneously abort. Science does not tell us if those cells contain all the necessary ingredients to become human beings. Why? Because they do not know. And neither do you.
We knew the Jews were human beings. We do not know if a specific fertilized cell is a human being or has the capability to become a human being. Again, we do not know and considering over half of them don't become human beings it reasonable to conclude that most are not human beings.
We do not know and neither do you.
Why do you have such difficulty with basic logic and common sense?
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
Here's the thing.... YOU don't know! That's all! Just YOU! Most of the rest of us KNOW when human life begins. Biology has known this for over 150 years! Nothing you have presented refutes that fact of life. SORRY, it just DOESN'T! You can repeat your idiotic self over and over for the next 50 years, but it won't make you any more correct or put you any closer to making your point. You are just flat out WRONG on this, and you will NEVER be right! Got it?
apple0154
MEOW
Unfortunately, our society is far too barbaric for that to be a good thing.
Would the biological parents be responsible for that child's welfare, finance-wise? I'm sure some folks (and we all know who they will be) will scream about government taxes going towards incubating someone's child.
Then there's the neglect. We know neglected children live a life of hell, from a lack of decent food and clothing to emotional needs. Then it's the "drop out of school - becoming anti-social - prison - no job prospects" road through life. Then there's the "what do we owe the less fortunate" sentiment we see running through JPP from one end to the other.
Nice thought but society is not ready for that.
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
So it's better to murder people because they wouldn't have a good life anyway, right?