When Does Life End?

apple0154 said:
Unfortunately, our society is far too barbaric for that to be a good thing.

Would the biological parents be responsible for that child's welfare, finance-wise? I'm sure some folks (and we all know who they will be) will scream about government taxes going towards incubating someone's child.

Then there's the neglect. We know neglected children live a life of hell, from a lack of decent food and clothing to emotional needs. Then it's the "drop out of school - becoming anti-social - prison - no job prospects" road through life. Then there's the "what do we owe the less fortunate" sentiment we see running through JPP from one end to the other.

Nice thought but society is not ready for that.
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Right, we "save" them by killing them. Only a liberal could say this.
 
Cells may be fertilized but the necessary components for those cells to develop into a human being may not be present.
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This is sheer ignorance of biology. Once the sperm cell permeates the egg cell, an immediate transformation happens, a chemical reaction takes place and the two cells fuse and immediately become a growing living multi-cell organism. Nothing else is required, no other component or element is obtained or acquired later, nothing else is added, no magical thing happens to change and alter what already exists. Does this organism have the right to vote? No... Does it have the right to file for Social Security? Nope! But at those particular stages, it contains nothing it doesn't already have at the point of conception.

We do know what the living organism is, there is no question in anyone's mind what it is or if it is organic. Science doesn't debate what kind of life form it is, we fully understand if it's the product of human sperm and egg, it is a human life form. It has begun the process of life, which will continue as long as it is not terminated or doesn't expire naturally.
 
Threedee said:
This reminds me of "destroying a village to save it."

Looks like its time to level Detroit, DC, Oakland, and so forth. :nuke:
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At least half of each of those cities could be bulldozed and returned to forest or farm land with a net positive benefit.
 
Dixie said:
And this is really about all you are good for in this debate, interjecting some juvenile quip which you believe is funny, but is just plain stupid and sophomoric. You may have a future as a clown, but leave the grown up debates for the adults.
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"leave the grown up debates for the adults"

So why are you here?
 
Ice Dancer said:
:good4u:
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Talking about grown up debates let's take a look at this.

Msg 211. "The fact is that ALL the material that is specific for the brain and only to the brain is all there at the moment of conception, not just "some". So too are all the genectic material for each and every neccesary part of each human being PRESENT at conception."

That's demonstrably not true. If it was every baby would be born perfect but there are many born with genetic defects. For example, heart valve problems which require immediate surgery. If ALL the necessary material was available those things would not occur.

From Down's syndrome to spina bifida something is wrong. Depending on the seriousness some grossly malformed fetuses spontaneously abort. It's reasonable to conclude that the over 50% of fertilized eggs that spontaneously abort do not have ALL the necessary material at the moment of conception.
 
Dixie said:
Here's the thing.... YOU don't know! That's all! Just YOU! Most of the rest of us KNOW when human life begins. Biology has known this for over 150 years! Nothing you have presented refutes that fact of life. SORRY, it just DOESN'T! You can repeat your idiotic self over and over for the next 50 years, but it won't make you any more correct or put you any closer to making your point. You are just flat out WRONG on this, and you will NEVER be right! Got it?
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My goodness you're dense. Saying all human beings begin at conception is not the same thing as saying every conception is a human being.

What was the last grade in school you successfully completed?
 
apple0154 said:
Talking about grown up debates let's take a look at this.

Msg 211. "The fact is that ALL the material that is specific for the brain and only to the brain is all there at the moment of conception, not just "some". So too are all the genectic material for each and every neccesary part of each human being PRESENT at conception."

That's demonstrably not true. If it was every baby would be born perfect but there are many born with genetic defects. For example, heart valve problems which require immediate surgery. If ALL the necessary material was available those things would not occur.

From Down's syndrome to spina bifida something is wrong. Depending on the seriousness some grossly malformed fetuses spontaneously abort. It's reasonable to conclude that the over 50% of fertilized eggs that spontaneously abort do not have ALL the necessary material at the moment of conception.
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Imperfection does not change or alter what a living organism is. FAIL

You should really try reading some books about it, you're not doing so well at this.
 
apple0154 said:
My goodness you're dense. Saying all human beings begin at conception is not the same thing as saying every conception is a human being.
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Uhm... yes, it is the same thing.

Point of conception is where life begins, no other point. If you want to claim that not all conceptions produce human beings that survive, that is fine, I can accept that... but at point of conception, it becomes a living unique multi-cell organism, and if it is the product human sperm and egg, it is a human organism. Nothing else has to happen, it doesn't become human somewhere down the road, it is already human at point of conception, and that is where it begins the life process. If you have evidence to show otherwise, I am sure millions of biologists would be intrigued to see it... please present some of it!
 
Threedee said:
Right, we "save" them by killing them. Only a liberal could say this.
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One has to be born before they can be murdered. When someone is murdered, then buried, their tombstone reads Born: then a date Died: then a date.

Ever see a tombstone read Conceived: then a date Died: then a date?
 
Dixie said:
This is sheer ignorance of biology. Once the sperm cell permeates the egg cell, an immediate transformation happens, a chemical reaction takes place and the two cells fuse and immediately become a growing living multi-cell organism. Nothing else is required, no other component or element is obtained or acquired later, nothing else is added, no magical thing happens to change and alter what already exists. Does this organism have the right to vote? No... Does it have the right to file for Social Security? Nope! But at those particular stages, it contains nothing it doesn't already have at the point of conception.

We do know what the living organism is, there is no question in anyone's mind what it is or if it is organic. Science doesn't debate what kind of life form it is, we fully understand if it's the product of human sperm and egg, it is a human life form. It has begun the process of life, which will continue as long as it is not terminated or doesn't expire naturally.
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You suffer from sheer ignorance of the obvious. If everything was there from the moment of conception then everyone would be born perfect. There would be no grossly malformed fetuses. There would be no genetically defective children. There would no spontaneous abortions of grossly malformed fetuses.
 
Dixie said:
Imperfection does not change or alter what a living organism is. FAIL

You should really try reading some books about it, you're not doing so well at this.
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If sufficient material is missing, yes, it does alter/change things because the living organism does not live. It does not have the necessary parts to be an organism. The parts are alive at the time they combine but the combination does not produce a living organism.
 
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