When Does Life End?

PostmodernProphet said:
most women don't know they are pregnant at SIX weeks......that is the point at which the first signals from the developing brain can be identified.....


Embryo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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of my three children, the first two were detected within the first trimester, my wife has had 2 children, she knew she was pregnant with her first child at 6 weeks and her second within 7 weeks of conception. funny how 4 of my five children and step children were detected within 12 weeks of conception. ALSO, 61.3% of all abortions are performed at less than 9 weeks of conception. [1] so your statement that there would be no abortions within the first 20 weeks is really ill informed. In fact that same link shows that a total of 1.1% of ALL abortions are performed AFTER 1%.
 
Ice Dancer said:
Your premise is factually untrue. The life of the unborn is always developing. The brain dead are in no such state. The dead brain will not develope and or renew itself. The brain of the unborn is forming, growing and developing along a continuuum.

Further, growth of the entire fetus cannot happen if the brain was not active at some level. Brain death would prevent development of the fetus.
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God you pro-choicers are so dumb, first tell us that you cannot know you are pregnant for 20 weeks, and now that a brain dead fetus cannot develop. Ever heard of Anacephaly (sp)? Children born with only the brain stem, no functioning brain at all? What other made up shit will you tell us?

PS almost every person considered brain dead still has brain stem activity. Brain Death is ONLY measured from the brain itself and not the stem.
 
Damocles said:
Let's test it. I'll strangle Watermark and he can tell us when he dies. ;) <- This is the just kidding emoticon for those people who are going to take offense and pretend they believe I'd really do that.
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You're right, you wouldn't. You'd have me choke him instead.
 
RStringfield said:
Again, it MAY be developing. And that does not start until 5 weeks after conception.
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99+% of the time it is developing, and normally. Even when not developing normally, as was obviously the case with Watermark, it was still developing, and therefore meets any reasonable definition of the word "activity".
 
Southern Man said:
99+% of the time it is developing, and normally. Even when not developing normally, as was obviously the case with Watermark, it was still developing, and therefore meets any reasonable definition of the word "activity".
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It's a valid point. Development probably should be considered activity or one could certainly make a good argument for it.

But we still have not established life at conception.
 
RStringfield said:
Even if I accepted the right it would be a hell of lot less than half. No way the contribution of sperm is equivalent to the contributions made by the mother.
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The man's contribution is the same at the moment of conception, and for several weeks after, as you attested here:

RStringfield said:
Again, it MAY be developing. And that does not start until 5 weeks after conception.
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and here:

RStringfield said:
Most women do not know they are pregnant at 20 weeks? Okay.
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RStringfield said:
It's a valid point. Development probably should be considered activity or one could certainly make a good argument for it.

But we still have not established life at conception.
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Sure we have. The sperm and the egg are alive, and the resulting zygote is also alive. We are well beyond that point in the discussion.
 
RStringfield said:
No, we are only at the beginning of brain development or when that is detectable. That does not start at conception.
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That obviously comes down to a definition now. Once you said 20 weeks, then you said five. Which one do you choose now?

And of course the argument can be made that the zygote contains all the information necessary to make a brain, so therefore the brain development starts there.

You seem to have missed my obvious opening from my first post in this thread. I'm suggesting a pragmatic compromise for the abortion argument.
 
Southern Man said:
The man's contribution is the same at the moment of conception, and for several weeks after, as you attested here:
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How is the man contributing at 5 and 20 weeks? The mans contribution is finished at conception if not at ejaculation. The sperm would quickly die outside the protection of the woman's body.
 
RStringfield said:
How is the man contributing at 5 and 20 weeks? The mans contribution is finished at conception if not at ejaculation. The sperm would quickly die outside the protection of the woman's body.
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If the woman doesn't even know that she's pregnant then she obviously hasn't made any effort for the unborn baby.
 
It seems to me, the debate is being centered around "brain activity" and not the human condition. The reason we oppose abortion is not because a brain is destroyed, it is because human life is destroyed. I think it is dangerous for society to start using "brain activity" as a criteria for what is and isn't human life, because there is a slippery slope. What's next? If someone doesn't possess the pre-required level of IQ,we can have them exterminated? ...Hell, most of the lefties on this forum would be TOAST!

Why can't we be intellectually honest enough to admit what human life is, and stop trying to create all of these false criteria to re-factor what is human? Is there a fundamental reason we need to set aside common sense and what biology tells us, other than an agenda-driven liberal concept that needs to be met?
 
Dixie face it, neither side is willing to budge one inch on this. Pro life says that life begins at conception (which I agree with) and Libtards want to legally kill their kids right up to the moment of birth.

LibTard RStringfield here has state that "brain activity" doesn't start at 20 weeks. What he really means but can't figure out is brain functionality.

The original Roe decision only allowed an abortion up until 12 weeks, or about 1/2 the time before the human brain becomes cognizant. Scientifically that's probably a reasonable cut-off point, since in practice a "factor of safety" to "do no harm" may be justifiable.

I'd be a lot happier with that then the current situation.
 
Southern Man said:
That obviously comes down to a definition now. Once you said 20 weeks, then you said five. Which one do you choose now?
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You seem to have missed my question marks. I am exploring an idea.

I think the argument is sound that brain development should be considered in determining whether the brain is dead. If a born patient who appeared brain dead showed signs that the brain was developing (i.e., regenerating) I think most would say we should not pull the plug and declare them dead.

Southern Man said:
And of course the argument can be made that the zygote contains all the information necessary to make a brain, so therefore the brain development starts there.
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No, that would mean anything containing dna is alive.
 
Southern Man said:
Dixie face it, neither side is willing to budge one inch on this. Pro life says that life begins at conception (which I agree with) and Libtards want to legally kill their kids right up to the moment of birth.

LibTard RStringfield here has state that "brain activity" doesn't start at 20 weeks. What he really means but can't figure out is brain functionality.
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No, I meant brain wave activity. I thought that was pretty clear.
 
In absence of human intervention or a medical anomaly, the unborn will develop into a human being.

One of a couple libertarian arguments is that we do not have the right to deprive this person of their right to life, even though they may at one instance lack all that we later come to ascribe to personhood.

They are a lifeform that will be a person, why then would they not have the right to be born?

How is this different than eliminating anyone else based on their age?
 
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