when is a bailout not a bailout

uscitizen said:
Debt is the only reason our economy was doing "good" for the last 8 yrs or so.
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Try the last 20 years or so. Personal debt made a jump in the mid 80s and has been on the upswing since.

Not surprising, and directly related, personal bankruptcy filings made a dramatic increase 2-3 years after personal debt jumped.
 
Well I just limited my statement to the last 8, but I do recall papply bush telling people to buy on credit to help the economy.
 
uscitizen said:
Well I just limited my statement to the last 8, but I do recall papply bush telling people to buy on credit to help the economy.
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The Clinton administration was as bad. Don't try to imply by omission the problem of consumer debt is a one-party item. Over extended business credit was a big factor in the dot-com crash.

Consumer debt was even on the rise during Nixon's presidency. Double-digit inflation put a damper on things when Carter was in office, but then consumer debt went back mountain climbing with a vigor when inflation was brought back under control. Consumer debt, and business debt, continued to rise trough all of the 90s at an ever increasing pace. But this time with the added factor that the years of high inflation had changed the laws limiting how much creditors could charge for high risk accounts. And that really put the screws to the lower middle class.
 
Put the screws to those who could not afford to pay apparently....
Obviously they should not have been loaned that money.

I want it all, and I want it now...
But I can't pay for it so I am being screwed.
 
uscitizen said:
Put the screws to those who could not afford to pay apparently....
Obviously they should not have been loaned that money.

I want it all, and I want it now...
But I can't pay for it so I am being screwed.
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There was a time when 26-30% would have bought the lender a jail sentence. Now it's standard "high risk" interest rates.

In case you haven't caught on, I am much against people - especially low income people - running their budget on deficit spending. So it's not like I have an over abundance of sympathy for them. Deficit spending is not only a problem of the government. And Pay-As-You-Go is also not only a good idea for government.

But having absolutely ridiculous interest rates is part of the problem from the other end. I have no doubt those kinds of rates made the difference between squeaking by and bankruptcy for more than a few. It also increased the time it takes to pay off the debt for many who do manage to squeak by.


In short, yes the people that couldn't wait to get their expensive toys are at fault for their situation.

But when it comes to the big picture and current credit crisis, so are the ones who charge ridiculous rates and fees aimed specifically at the ones who cannot afford it. You cannot tell me that it was not a considered maneuver on their part, knowing if they bump the rate up for minimal excuses there would be those who would have to eat the increase and take that much longer to pay the debt, thus significantly increasing the lender's profits. Especially when they pull the "high risk" crap on people whose only fault was paying minimum payment three times in a row.

And speaking of responsibility for the mess in the big picture, so are the ones who allow those kinds of fees to be charged.
 
Well they did not have to go eyeball deep in debt for far more home than they needed, 2 new expensive cars, 45" widescreen, big vacation every year, etc If they could not afford it
but they are sheep led by the tube and their self esteem depends on their posessions, not on their true self worth.
.
 
uscitizen said:
Well they did not have to go eyeball deep in debt for far more home than they needed, 2 new expensive cars, 45" widescreen, big vacation every year, etc If they could not afford it
but they are sheep led by the tube and their self esteem depends on their posessions, not on their true self worth.
.
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We have been a materialist society for some time now.

But just because deficit spending is unwise, and for many will end up causing grief in the long run does not make predatory lending and loan-shark interest rates innocent of a share of responsibility for the current situation.

Nor does it excuse a government which removed many reasonable consumer protections that were working quite well. It was a move demanded by the lenders as a requisite for opening their market to lower income brackets. And the desire to open the lending market to lower income brackets was so the economy could be artificially stimulated through deficit spending.

In short, pretty much everyone, from the deficit spender to the predatory lender to Uncle Sam, has at least a minimal share in the big shit sandwich our society is going to be munching down on.

Except me, of course. :D
 
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