When seconds count: Stopping active killers

Little-Acorn

New member
Well, what do you know. After decades of mass shootings at schools, malls, restaurants etc., police have been studying the tactics of the shooters, and noticed some patterns. And they have even begun to draw some conclusions on how fewer innocent people might get shot.

Some of their conclusions:

1.) SWAT teams don't get there in time to prevent mass killings.
2.) Police squads don't get there in time, either.
3.) The shooters usually don't expect to survive.
4.) Shooters often deliberately seek out areas where they know their intended victims are forbidden to have guns.
5.) When confronted with armed resistance, the shooters usually turn their gun on themselves, ending their spree.

This is extraordinary progress. And I personally believe they are headed in the right direction: The more of this they figure out, the closer we will get to situations where fewer innocents are killed and wounded by thse armed nutcase shooters.

I'll take the liberty of looking ahead, at what the logical outcome of these studies might be, and what the best form of defense against these homicidal madmen looks like. I'll even borrow a well-known phrase (translated to modern language) to sum it up.

"Since an armed and capable populace is necessary for security and freedom, the right of ordinary people to own and carry guns and other such weapons should not be taken away or restricted."

Yep. Let the good guys in the school or mall or whatever, arm themselves if they choose, so that they can INSTANTLY disable or confront the madman. Might not save the first few people he shoots, but it will save the rest, and far faster than police (who aren't there) can do it. Most good guys still won't bother carrying, but a few will, and the bad guy will have no idea which one(s) they are, or where.

Some bad guys might even take this into consideration when planning their little frolic, and decide to spend the day fishing instead. How many more innocent lives will that save?

Yep, kudoes to the police for coming, ever so slowly, to the conclusion the Founding Fathers explained to us more than 200 years ago.

That's progress. I think.

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http://www.wcpo.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=d26c29ff-f134-4202-bc40-947534a6de3c

When Seconds Count: Stopping Active Killers

Reported by: Brendan Keefe
Email: Brendan.Keefe@wcpo.com
Last Update: 11/14 1:22 am

There have been so many school shootings over the last 40 years that researchers have been able to develop a profile of the typical mass murderer.

They're called "active shooters" or "active killers" and their crimes play out in a matter of minutes.

After the Columbine High School massacre in 1999, police changed their tactics.

The two student gunmen killed 15 people and themselves before the SWAT team was in position.

Commanders realized that it simply takes too long to assemble a tactical team in time to stop an active killer.

The new tactics developed in response to Columbine involved creating an ad-hoc tactical team using the first four or five patrol officers on the scene.

They would enter the shooting scene in a diamond formation with guns pointing in all directions.

This technique was employed by police departments around the country.

Then 32 people were killed by a lone gunman at Virginia Tech in April 2007.

Seung Hui Cho shot 47 people, 30 fatally, in the university's Norris Hall in just 11 minutes.

That means every minute he killed more than three people and shot a total of four.

Once again, the gunman continued shooting until a four-officer team made entry and then he killed himself.

Law enforcement reviewed its tactics.

Based on the Virginia Tech data, experts determined the first officer on scene should make entry immediately with an aggressive attack on the shooter.

Every minute the officer waits for back-up, another three or more people could die.

In other words, while it was once considered suicide for a lone officer to take on an active killer, it is now considered statistical homicide for him not to do so.

Tactical Defense Institute in Adams County, Ohio developed one of the first "single officer response" programs in the nation.

TDI was teaching the tactic even before Virginia Tech. Now the National School Resource Officer Organization (NSRO) is using TDI instructors to teach school resource officers how to confront a gunman immediately.

Locally, all Blue Ash police officers are trained in these new tactics in large part because their chief, Col. Chris Wallace, is also a TDI instructor.

The other statistic that emerged from a study of active killers is that they almost exclusively seek out "gun free" zones for their attacks.

In most states, concealed handguns are prohibited at schools and on college campuses even for those with permits.

Many malls and workplaces also place signs at their entrances prohibiting firearms on the premises.

Now tacticians believe the signs themselves may be an invitation to the active killers.

The psychological profile of a mass murderer indicates he is looking to inflict the most casualties as quickly as possible.

Also, the data show most active killers have no intention of surviving the event.

They may select schools and shopping malls because of the large number of defenseless victims and the virtual guarantee no one on the scene is armed.

As soon as they're confronted by any armed resistance, the shooters typically turn the gun on themselves.
 
I wonder how much we paid for this study?

And it said what most of us gun owners have been saying for years.
 
The liberals still won't get it. They've been scaring themselves so long with the dangers of firearms ownership it has become a phobia.

They also have a phobia about free speech, freedom of religion, and several others guaranteed by the Bill of Rights.
 
The liberals still won't get it. They've been scaring themselves so long with the dangers of firearms ownership it has become a phobia.

They also have a phobia about free speech, freedom of religion, and several others guaranteed by the Bill of Rights.
Oh please. Don't give me that horse shit. There isn't a single one of you who has to live in a neighborhood infested with the Crips and the Bloods.

The NRA (National Republican Association) is a failure. Both as a gun advocacy group and a conservation group. There a pale failure compared to organizations like Ducks Unlimited.

I mean what the fuck do conservatives know about freedom and liberty? There just words to them. Wait till some non-conformist goes out and practices freedom and watch conservatives scream to high heaven. Being free and having liberties don't mean shit if you don't practice them and that seems to be a notion that escapes most conservatives or otherwise they wouldn't be so hell bend to have everyone conform to their narrow minded views of the world.

You want to see what a true martyr to freedom is? Go see AKA Tommy Chong.

PS - You won't need a handgun.
 
Let's imagine a world in which the little dorks simply hadn't been able to steal semiautomatics and handguns from their parents or walk into a gun shop and easily possess them.

There would be millions of people alive today in a gun-ban world.
 
Let's imagine a world in which the little dorks simply hadn't been able to steal semiautomatics and handguns from their parents or walk into a gun shop and easily possess them.

There would be millions of people alive today in a gun-ban world.

BUT I WULDN'T BE SAFE FRUM DA GUBMENT!
 
...

I mean what the fuck do conservatives know about freedom and liberty? There just words to them. Wait till some non-conformist goes out and practices freedom and watch conservatives scream to high heaven. Being free and having liberties don't mean shit if you don't practice them and that seems to be a notion that escapes most conservatives or otherwise they wouldn't be so hell bend to have everyone conform to their narrow minded views of the world.

.....

Here is an actual example of tolerant and peaceful liberals who are faced with the reality of living in a democracy.

 
Let's imagine a world in which the little dorks simply hadn't been able to steal semiautomatics and handguns from their parents or walk into a gun shop and easily possess them.

There would be millions of people alive today in a gun-ban world.

no there wouldn't dipshit. those same people would be dead by knives, rocks, bats, cars, and bare hands. You're one of those idiots that think guns have an evil sentient being forged within the steel so that it walks around and possesses people to make them kill, aren't you?
 
Oh please. Don't give me that horse shit. There isn't a single one of you who has to live in a neighborhood infested with the Crips and the Bloods.

The NRA (National Republican Association) is a failure. Both as a gun advocacy group and a conservation group. There a pale failure compared to organizations like Ducks Unlimited.

I mean what the fuck do conservatives know about freedom and liberty? There just words to them. Wait till some non-conformist goes out and practices freedom and watch conservatives scream to high heaven. Being free and having liberties don't mean shit if you don't practice them and that seems to be a notion that escapes most conservatives or otherwise they wouldn't be so hell bend to have everyone conform to their narrow minded views of the world.

You want to see what a true martyr to freedom is? Go see AKA Tommy Chong.

PS - You won't need a handgun.

What? The main goals of the NRA have been teaching people how to shoot safely and protecting the right to own a gun.

They have about 50,000 certified trainers teaching gun classes to 750,000 people per year. The NRA's safety program designed to teach kids NOT to touch a gun if they find one has been taught to over 12 million kids in the last 20 years.

And despite gun ownership being more and more limited worldwide, in our country the opposite has happened. There have been more and more efforts at curtailing private gun ownership, and yet they have failed.

I think the NRA is doing a great job. It was never about conservation. The NRA is not an organization for hunters. It is for shooters. It was originally created to train safe, accurate rifle shooters.



And your generalizations about gun owners as closed-minded conservatives is way off base. Yes, there are some who think that way. Just as there are some closed-minded liberals who want guns removed from private hands regardless of the evidence that it is counter-productive in the effort to fight crime. (look at WM's rants) But to lump us all in with the bible thumping conservatives is simply inaccurate.

Do I live where there are crips and bloods? No, thanks fully I do not. But my work has taken me into bad neighborhoods often enough.

Is that your mark of bravery? To live where crips and bloods live? Because the people I know who have, moved away as soon as they could.



I agree that Tommy Chong fought for his rights and his freedoms. But having everyone be a martyr to freedom means there is no one left outside of prison. And the marijuana laws and paraphanalia laws haven't been changed because Tommy Chong got screwed.
 
Some would say that if the college kid had been allowed to carry guns on campus. Well remember the murders were done by a college kid carrying a gun on campus.

Easy answers = none.
Better people is the answer, but again not an easy one.
 
Some would say that if the college kid had been allowed to carry guns on campus. Well remember the murders were done by a college kid carrying a gun on campus.

Easy answers = none.
Better people is the answer, but again not an easy one.

No, not easy answers. But do you think its a coincidence that the armed college kid went on his rampage on a campus where guns are not allowed?
 
No, not easy answers. But do you think its a coincidence that the armed college kid went on his rampage on a campus where guns are not allowed?

He didn't "pick" a college. He just shot up the one he went too.

Guns aren't allowed at any college, and rightfully so. They shouldn't be allowed anywhere else either.
 
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Are all of you aware that close to 1000 people have been murdered in Juarez Mexico? Most of them shot. Three weeks ago a man went to the emergency room in Juarez to get treated for a gunshot wound to the elbow. His assailants walked in a few moments later and opened fire shooting him 14 times. This is in a country where gun owership is forbidden. One where two people from Nebraska, several years ago, accidentally drove over the border with a gun in their car and they ended up spending a long time in the PRISON in Juarez because there is no city jail. They HATE guns in mexico, they could lead to a revolution, so you can't have em and yet still the murder rate in Juarez makes the murder rate in Detroit seem tame.
 
Are all of you aware that close to 1000 people have been murdered in Juarez Mexico? Most of them shot. Three weeks ago a man went to the emergency room in Juarez to get treated for a gunshot wound to the elbow. His assailants walked in a few moments later and opened fire shooting him 14 times. This is in a country where gun owership is forbidden. One where two people from Nebraska, several years ago, accidentally drove over the border with a gun in their car and they ended up spending a long time in the PRISON in Juarez because there is no city jail. They HATE guns in mexico, they could lead to a revolution, so you can't have em and yet still the murder rate in Juarez makes the murder rate in Detroit seem tame.

Well Soc maybe if the US wouldn't have such irresponsible gun laws Mexico wouldn't be infected with the guns constantly flowing over the border from here.
 
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