When seconds count: Stopping active killers

Watermark said:
Let's imagine a world in which the little dorks simply hadn't been able to steal semiautomatics and handguns from their parents or walk into a gun shop and easily possess them.

There would be millions of people alive today in a gun-ban world.
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You know, that might be THE quintessential liberal quote.

"Just think, if we could just do something that's impossible, then wow what a utopia we'd have.....!!"

Sort of a pseudo-intellectual version of playing with yourself. No wonder they're so detached from reality, and their lofty plans keep failing.
 
Little-Acorn said:
You know, that might be THE quintessential liberal quote.

"Just think, if we could just do something that's impossible, then wow what a utopia we'd have.....!!"

Sort of a pseudo-intellectual version of playing with yourself. No wonder they're so detached from reality, and their lofty plans keep failing.
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If guns were banned the guy at Virginia Tech wouldn't have even known how to get one. He had no friends, absolutely no connection to the underground. If we'd crack down on the underground we'd have a massive stopage to the huge flow of legal guns to illegal hands that contributes to the gang slaughters in our streets.

This isn't impossible. That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Banning all handguns, assault rifles, and semiautomatic weapons is common sense.
 
Mottleydude said:
Oh please. Don't give me that horse shit. There isn't a single one of you who has to live in a neighborhood infested with the Crips and the Bloods.

The NRA (National Republican Association) is a failure. Both as a gun advocacy group and a conservation group. There a pale failure compared to organizations like Ducks Unlimited.

I mean what the fuck do conservatives know about freedom and liberty? There just words to them. Wait till some non-conformist goes out and practices freedom and watch conservatives scream to high heaven. Being free and having liberties don't mean shit if you don't practice them and that seems to be a notion that escapes most conservatives or otherwise they wouldn't be so hell bend to have everyone conform to their narrow minded views of the world.

You want to see what a true martyr to freedom is? Go see AKA Tommy Chong.

PS - You won't need a handgun.
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I know a lot of narrow minded red neck conservatives. They are pretty much as you describe. They are also a small percentage of the other conservatives I know. The wackos still adore Bush and his anti-American policies. But the main stream abandoned Bush long ago. Anyone with any sense of honesty knows the only reason Bush won a second time was because of the votes cast AGAINST Kerry. The majority sure as hell were not voting FOR Bush.

I also have known a lot of narrow minded yellow dog liberals. They are as bad if not worse than the narrow minded red neck conservatives. The big difference is how it plays in politics. The items I mentioned, fear of legally owned firearms (right to keep and bear arms), fear of conservatives talk shows (free speech) fear of religion being so much as mentioned in a public venue (free practice of religion), fear of hate speech (free speech again) all have become core to the main stream liberal agenda.

And do not forget what you Lord and Savior did with the FISA bill he promised to vote against. And I have not heard much from the liberal faction, with a few exceptions, about that blatant betrayal - or was it a betrayal? (So much for liberal objections to violating 4th amendment protections.)

There is only one major differences between the main stream liberal agenda and the far right racist redneck wacko agenda. And that is who they label as non-conformist. How they plan on treating the "non-conformists" is exactly the same: take away the rights that make them non-conformist.
 
i support an armed population - if the weapon owners are properly trained and receive annual upgrades in their training and (horrors - registration in order to receive a CCW)

opening fire in a crowded area requires training, especially, if you do not want to kill bystanders


another good thing would be to teach your family to hug the ground/floor if they hear gun shots
 
Mottleydude said:
Please, name just one college or university in which they are allowed?
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That was not my point. The kid first shot someone he wanted to kill, then went after innocent strangers. As the study showed, he wanted to do the maximum harm with the minimum resistance.

College campuses fit that bill perfectly.
 
Mottleydude said:
Please, name just one college or university in which they are allowed?
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And also, I can see the rationale behind not letting students carry on a campus.

But why does the ban also include professors, faculty and staff?
 
Solitary said:
What? The main goals of the NRA have been teaching people how to shoot safely and protecting the right to own a gun.

They have about 50,000 certified trainers teaching gun classes to 750,000 people per year. The NRA's safety program designed to teach kids NOT to touch a gun if they find one has been taught to over 12 million kids in the last 20 years.

And despite gun ownership being more and more limited worldwide, in our country the opposite has happened. There have been more and more efforts at curtailing private gun ownership, and yet they have failed.

I think the NRA is doing a great job. It was never about conservation. The NRA is not an organization for hunters. It is for shooters. It was originally created to train safe, accurate rifle shooters.



And your generalizations about gun owners as closed-minded conservatives is way off base. Yes, there are some who think that way. Just as there are some closed-minded liberals who want guns removed from private hands regardless of the evidence that it is counter-productive in the effort to fight crime. (look at WM's rants) But to lump us all in with the bible thumping conservatives is simply inaccurate.

Do I live where there are crips and bloods? No, thanks fully I do not. But my work has taken me into bad neighborhoods often enough.

Is that your mark of bravery? To live where crips and bloods live? Because the people I know who have, moved away as soon as they could.



I agree that Tommy Chong fought for his rights and his freedoms. But having everyone be a martyr to freedom means there is no one left outside of prison. And the marijuana laws and paraphanalia laws haven't been changed because Tommy Chong got screwed.
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I'm not criticizing gun owners. In the past I've been one and at some time in the future I may choose to do so again. I know many people who own guns and I fully support the second ammendment.

My criticism is that the National Republican Association is little more than a political organ for the extreme right wing of the Republican party. My biggest criticism of the NRA other than allowing their membership to be cynically manipulated by right wing politicians in the finest tradition of George Orwell, is their disconnect with the problems and issues with violence that gun ownership presents to our society, particularly in urban areas. Their disconnect is irrational and immoral.

You did a good job of making my point on your comment on the crips and bloods. Their access to millitary style weaponry is one hell of a urban problem in which running away to another neighborhood does not address (and yes, that could be viewed as cowardly) and is an example of the disconnect I just mentioned. It does nothing to address the problem of gun violence in urban areas. The National Republican Association intentionally promotes this disconnect and that is immoral as hell.

Though you do make a good point about everyone being a martyr leaves no one outside of prison, though I don't think Tommy Chong intended to be a martyr. I like what he say's when people ask him what it's like to have been in prison. He say's "Oh you'll find out. The way this country is going you'll know what it's like to go to prison."
 
Socrtease said:
Are all of you aware that close to 1000 people have been murdered in Juarez Mexico? Most of them shot. Three weeks ago a man went to the emergency room in Juarez to get treated for a gunshot wound to the elbow. His assailants walked in a few moments later and opened fire shooting him 14 times. This is in a country where gun owership is forbidden. One where two people from Nebraska, several years ago, accidentally drove over the border with a gun in their car and they ended up spending a long time in the PRISON in Juarez because there is no city jail. They HATE guns in mexico, they could lead to a revolution, so you can't have em and yet still the murder rate in Juarez makes the murder rate in Detroit seem tame.
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Hey I agree that the second amendment is essential for not only protecting oneself, family and property but is essential for preserving our political liberties as well. I am also aware that many attempts at gun control are misguided and have unintended consequences.

My issue with organizations like the National Republican Association is that just because we have the freedom to bear arms doesn't mean we can bury our head in the sand and ignore the problems with violence that gun ownership in our society represent. Just as with freedom of speech, the right to bear arms is not an absolute right and we, as a society, have a moral responsibility to address the issue of gun violence in our society and how best to manage it.

With great freedoms comes grave responsibilities.
 
Mottleydude said:
I'm not criticizing gun owners. In the past I've been one and at some time in the future I may choose to do so again. I know many people who own guns and I fully support the second ammendment.

My criticism is that the National Republican Association is little more than a political organ for the extreme right wing of the Republican party. My biggest criticism of the NRA other than allowing their membership to be cynically manipulated by right wing politicians in the finest tradition of George Orwell, is their disconnect with the problems and issues with violence that gun ownership presents to our society, particularly in urban areas. Their disconnect is irrational and immoral.

You did a good job of making my point on your comment on the crips and bloods. Their access to millitary style weaponry is one hell of a urban problem in which running away to another neighborhood does not address (and yes, that could be viewed as cowardly) and is an example of the disconnect I just mentioned. It does nothing to address the problem of gun violence in urban areas. The National Republican Association intentionally promotes this disconnect and that is immoral as hell.

Though you do make a good point about everyone being a martyr leaves no one outside of prison, though I don't think Tommy Chong intended to be a martyr. I like what he say's when people ask him what it's like to have been in prison. He say's "Oh you'll find out. The way this country is going you'll know what it's like to go to prison."
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Running away to another neighborhood is not the point I made at all.

If you look at the places where the crips and bloods have power, they are typically the poorests areas. The violence in those neighborhoods is not the only reason people want to get out. If they have a chance to leave that sort of poverty and squalor, they will do so at the first opportunity. There is nothing cowardly about that. Its called taking care of your family. Safer neighborhoods, better schools, and better jobs are not found in the realm of the crips and bloods.


I am not sure what point you are making with the martyrdom of Tommy Chong. Personal liberties are important to me and to most of my fellow "gunnies".
 
Watermark said:
If guns were banned the guy at Virginia Tech wouldn't have even known how to get one. He had no friends, absolutely no connection to the underground. If we'd crack down on the underground we'd have a massive stopage to the huge flow of legal guns to illegal hands that contributes to the gang slaughters in our streets.

This isn't impossible. That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Banning all handguns, assault rifles, and semiautomatic weapons is common sense.
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:lolup::lolup::lolup::lolup::lolup::lolup::lolup:
 
No one is answering my question about why professors, faculty and staff that have CCW permits are not allowed to carry.

They will have been thru background checks, fingerprint checks and such.

And they are not kids.
 
Solitary said:
No, not easy answers. But do you think its a coincidence that the armed college kid went on his rampage on a campus where guns are not allowed?
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No more of a coincidence than postal workers going postal in a post office where guns are not allowed.

It was his little world and he was nuts.
 
uscitizen said:
No more of a coincidence than postal workers going postal in a post office where guns are not allowed.

It was his little world and he was nuts.
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And yet, when employees of pawn shops, gun stores, or sporting goods stores go nuts they don't return to their job and start shooting.

These wackos want a place with little chance of resistance. They don't expect to survive. So the police are of little help because they cannot be there when it starts.
 
Damocles said:
I think you'd like the video. Some lady with a cross enters a demonstration of gay activists right after the new law passed in California...
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Pity we couldn't hear what she was saying. I am sure it was something loving and compassionate.
 
another good thing would be to teach your family to hug the ground/floor if they hear gun shots
//

Took me a while to unlearn that after Nam.
A sudden backfire or somesuch and you might see me on the ground.
 
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