Who really cares about the poor?

[Cancel 2016.2]

Using averages is laziness and imprecise and too subject to distribution skews. I'd like to see whether the rich liberals give more than the rich conservatives and whether the poor liberals give more than the poor conservatives.

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Who-Really-Cares-Compassionate-Conservatism/dp/0465008216"]Amazon.com: Who Really Cares: The Surprising Truth About Compasionate Conservatism Who Gives, Who Doesn't, and Why It Matters: Arthur C. Brooks: Books[/ame]

The article was obviously just a brief account of the book....

 

[Bonestorm]

The book covered far more than just averages...

Well, I can only respond to what was posted. What was posted relied upon averages.

According to the study, the largest factor isn't how much is made, it is how religious one is.

As I suspected.

 

[uscitizen]

Since you are going on feeling what 'feeling' makes you think that conservatives have more money than liberals?

all of them don't. Just a tendancy if you have money you want to keep it
Liberals spend all theirs and keep our 2/3 consumer spending based economy going economy going. In that respect liberals (in general) are stupid imho.
Again just slaves to the boob tube for the most part.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Ahh Damo, you know how data can be "massaged", and statistics played many ways.
Especially to sell books or ideology.

denialist

 

[uscitizen]

denialist

I have just learned to have faith in my opinions in my corner of the world.
Your corner might differ. Do not try this at home.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Well, I can only respond to what was posted. What was posted relied upon averages.



As I suspected.

LMAO... As you suspected? It friggin said that in the article. good call.

 

[leaningright]

Here is a good article that adresses this. It is written by John Stossel so some of you may not want to read it but it is good and the "experiment" was kind of cool.

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/JohnStossel/2006/12/06/who_gives_to_charity

 

[uscitizen]

Rural life vs big city life leaning ?

rural people whether dems or republican care more about their neighbor than in a big city where many do not even know their neighbors.

How about comparing apples to apples. A dem rural area to a republican rural area.

 

[leaningright]

Yup usc, that was kind of the experiment.

 

[uscitizen]

Yup usc, that was kind of the experiment.

and of course people in big cities make more money.

 

[uscitizen]

Statistics considered out of context are misleading Damo.

 

[Bonestorm]

Here is a good article that adresses this. It is written by John Stossel so some of you may not want to read it but it is good and the "experiment" was kind of cool.

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/JohnStossel/2006/12/06/who_gives_to_charity

Stossel's article suffers from the same problems that I have already raised. The plural of "anecdote" is not "evidence." Salvation Army buckets at two locations doesn't really prove anything other than the fact that John Stossel is a bit slow or thinks his viewers are. Also, using red state-blue state shorthand to determine if liberals or conservative are more charitable is a lousy methodology.

I'm quite certain that there is data on ideology-household income and charitable giving that doesn't rely on averages. I'd just like to see it.

 

[leaningright]

A specific local example: Last year an 8th grad girl was diagnosed with ovarian cancer. The family had no insurance and needed some financial assistance to get things done. The dad was a mechanic and the mom didn't work. We had a pie supper (call it fundraiser #1) and raised over $10,000. In a few months we had a chili supper (fundraiser #2) and raised another $8000. The church where I preach gave them some money....I don't know how much as that is a decision made by the elders. Other churches in our community gave some as well. That, along with what government assistance could be had (and there is some out there) got them through it. She is doing well and has been pronounced cancer free today.

Point of this is that we are a community of about 300 people. We worked in conjunction with 2 communities of about 300 or 400 people. When people here see a need they care enough to react and will give until it hurts.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Stossel's article suffers from the same problems that I have already raised. The plural of "anecdote" is not "evidence." Salvation Army buckets at two locations doesn't really prove anything other than the fact that John Stossel is a bit slow or thinks his viewers are. Also, using red state-blue state shorthand to determine if liberals or conservative are more charitable is a lousy methodology.

I'm quite certain that there is data on ideology-household income and charitable giving that doesn't rely on averages. I'd just like to see it.

I provided you a link to his book.... it costs $10 bucks... enjoy.

 

[Damocles]

Statistics considered out of context are misleading Damo.

And your attempt to say they are out of context based on a page article covering a few hundred pages of book is a bit disingenuous.

The reality is, it is the spiritual among us who give. The ones that give the most are the "working poor" when taken as a percentage of what they make. And of those the ones that give the least are those who identify as secular and liberal. Of the conservatives the ones that gave the least were those who identify as secular and conservative.

I am among one group that "gives the least". As my religion is rarely considered when working these studies.

 

[uscitizen]

A specific local example: Last year an 8th grad girl was diagnosed with ovarian cancer. The family had no insurance and needed some financial assistance to get things done. The dad was a mechanic and the mom didn't work. We had a pie supper (call it fundraiser #1) and raised over $10,000. In a few months we had a chili supper (fundraiser #2) and raised another $8000. The church where I preach gave them some money....I don't know how much as that is a decision made by the elders. Other churches in our community gave some as well. That, along with what government assistance could be had (and there is some out there) got them through it. She is doing well and has been pronounced cancer free today.

Point of this is that we are a community of about 300 people. We worked in conjunction with 2 communities of about 300 or 400 people. When people here see a need they care enough to react and will give until it hurts.

Yep works the same way around here. You will also see jars for people in need in the country stores.

Just another reason I hate the big cities and love the country life.

btw I have never seen anyone ask for a reciept for tax purposes after throing money in a charity jar at the store. and I am not sure if any of the charity fund raisers give out reciepts or not, I have never asked for one.

 

[Bonestorm]

I provided you a link to his book.... it costs $10 bucks... enjoy.

Well, you invited responses to the article. I have provided mine and my criticisms haven't really been answered. Maybe you should take a break from patting yourself on the back and try to respond to the criticisms that you requested.

 

[uscitizen]

And your attempt to say they are out of context based on a page article covering a few hundred pages of book is a bit disingenuous.

The reality is, it is the spiritual among us who give. The ones that give the most are the "working poor" when taken as a percentage of what they make. And of those the ones that give the least are those who identify as secular and liberal. Of the conservatives the ones that gave the least were those who identify as secular and conservative.

I am among one group that "gives the least". As my religion is rarely considered when working these studies.

you are closer to agreeing with me than you realize.

 

[Damocles]

you are closer to agreeing with me than you realize.

Or, you are closer to actually reading the facts of the article than you realize. All I have done is simply repeated what the article says about the book here in the thread. So if I am "closer to agreeing with you than I think" it is actually because, had you actually read the article, you would have found yourself less in disagreement with it than you think.

Other than your attempt to say that the liberals are all poorer when they make, on average, 6% more than those who do not identify as liberal....

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Well, you invited responses to the article. I have provided mine and my criticisms haven't really been answered. Maybe you should take a break from patting yourself on the back and try to respond to the criticisms that you requested.

Ok.... fair enough... I have two options in answering your criticism....

1) Let you know where you can find the book that will show you the data you have requested.

2) Scan hundreds of pages from the book and post them on here... which I am quite sure would not go over well with the books author or Damo.

Side note... nice attempt at a strawman. Clearly you are working your way through Cypress's class. I was not "patting myself on the back" as I fall into the non-religious group as well. I was pointing out the continued mis-perception by liberals that they somehow care more about the poor or that they are not a party of the wealthy... yet as pointed out, the majority of the wealthiest districts in the country trend dem.