Why did our founding fathers hate corporations?

WinterBorn said:
So you are claiming that the only way to satisfy a quest for knowledge is by going to college?

He has said nothing about stopping his learning. Just that, due to circumstances, he was unable to complete his college education.
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ever the snake in the grass/ambulance chaser, how the fuck does implying something change to saying it's the only way. Fucking clown.

He's a drop out trying to play economics with the big boy's, defend him all you want.:awesome:
 
Topspin said:
ever the snake in the grass/ambulance chaser, how the fuck does implying something change to saying it's the only way. Fucking clown.

He's a drop out trying to play economics with the big boy's, defend him all you want.:awesome:
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Ambulance chaser? You think I am a lawyer? lol Hell, that would be almost as bad as an MBA.

I am just challenging your egotistical post.
 
Sorry about the lawyer thing. Your being an ass though making a major leap putting words in someones mouth. Partisan hackishness.
 
Topspin said:
ever the snake in the grass/ambulance chaser, how the fuck does implying something change to saying it's the only way. Fucking clown.

He's a drop out trying to play economics with the big boy's, defend him all you want.:awesome:
Click to expand...

Being a bean counter is not an 'economist'...the first thing an economist must understand is the impact of their policies on a nation. They must be able to measure in monetary capital and human capital. A nation is not a tuft of land, it is men, women, children, the aged, the rich, the poor, the true dependents that a civil society must protect.

When I argue with conservatives about how they can easily fix the economy, I think of Harry Hopkins. Their morally bankrupt punishments require some group of human beings to evaporate.

During the Great Depression conservatives raised the same objections to F.D.R.’s programs. They said the economy must be left alone and it would correct itself in the long run. Commerce Secretary Harry Hopkins shot back: “People don’t eat in the long run. They eat every day.”

"Republicans care more about property, Democrats care more about people"
Ted Sorensen - President Kennedy's Special Counsel & Adviser, and primary speechwriter
 
nice cut and paste
democrats like you often confuse economic principles in thier rants which you often did.
 
Bfgrn said:
...the first thing an economist must understand is the impact of their policies on a nation.
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Wrong. An economist should understand that the free market, like all things natural, is cold and merciless and it is not his job to make it less so.
 
Damn Yankee said:
Wrong. An economist should understand that the free market, like all things natural, is cold and merciless and it is not his job to make it less so.
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Thank you for validating the title of this thread. That is not the nation our founding fathers envisioned, it would be the nation Mussolini envisioned.
 
Damn Yankee said:
Cite evidence supporting your assertion.
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Franklin Roosevelt said during World War II that the domination of government by corporate power is "the essence of fascism" and Benito Mussolini -- who had an insider's view of that process -- said the same thing. Essentially, he complained that fascism should not be called fascism. It should be called corporatism because it was the merger of state and corporate power.

Well first of all, your definition: "An economist should understand that the free market, like all things natural, is cold and merciless and it is not his job to make it less so", is not a civil society. What you are spewing is a JUNGLE society. That is not a democratic society our founders created. It would be a society that a Mussolini or a dictator would devise.

In general terms, every economic system is composed of people and institutions, including their relationships to productive resources, such as through the convention of property.

In creating and modifying its economic system, each society chooses among alternative objectives and alternative decision modes. Many objectives may be seen as desirable, like efficiency, growth, liberty, and equality.

An economic system can be considered a part of the social system and hierarchically equal to the law system, political system, cultural, etc.
wiki

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Directly related to the title of this thread, your grossly misinformed understanding of a civil society, economic systems and what a free market is and isn't, here is the best description I have seen. Why don't you try a different approach this time, take 2 minutes and READ it:
------------------------------------------------------------------------

There is nothing wrong with corporations. Corporations are a good thing. They encourage us to take risks. They maximize wealth. They create jobs. I own a corporation. They're a great thing, but they should not be running our government. The reason for that is they don't have the same aspirations for America that you and I do. A corporation does not want democracy. It does not want free markets, it wants profits, and the best way for it to get profits is to use our campaign-finance system -- which is just a system of legalized bribery -- to get their stakes, their hooks into a public official and then use that public official to dismantle the marketplace to give them a competitive advantage and then to privatize the commons, to steal the commonwealth, to liquidate public assets for cash, to plunder, to steal from the rest of us.

And that doesn't mean corporations are a bad thing. It just means they're amoral, and we have to recognize that and not let them into the political process. Let them do their thing, but they should not be participating in our political process, because a corporation cannot do something genuinely philanthropic. It's against the law in this country, because their shareholders can sue them for wasting corporate resources. They cannot legally do anything that will not increase their profit margins. That's the way the law works, and we have to recognize that and understand that they are toxic for the political process, and they have to be fenced off and kept out of the political process. This is why throughout our history our most visionary political leaders -- Republican and Democrat -- have been warning the American public against domination by corporate power.

The Bush White House has done a great job of persuading a gullible press and the American public that the big threat to American democracy is big government. Well, yeah, big government is a threat ultimately, but it is dwarfed by the threat of excessive corporate power and the corrosive impact that has on our democracy. And you know, as I said, you look at all the great political leaders in this country and the central theme is that we have to be cautious about, we have to avoid, the domination of our government by corporate power.

Teddy Roosevelt, a Republican, said that America would never be destroyed by a foreign power but he warned that our political institutions, our democratic institutions, would be subverted by malefactors of great wealth, who would erode them from within. Dwight Eisenhower, another Republican, in his most famous speech, warned America against domination by the military industrial complex.

Abraham Lincoln, the greatest Republican in our history, said during the height of the Civil War "I have the South in front of me and I have the bankers behind me. And for my country, I fear the bankers more." Franklin Roosevelt said during World War II that the domination of government by corporate power is "the essence of fascism" and Benito Mussolini -- who had an insider's view of that process -- said the same thing. Essentially, he complained that fascism should not be called fascism. It should be called corporatism because it was the merger of state and corporate power. And what we have to understand as Americans is that the domination of business by government is called communism. The domination of government by business is called fascism. And our job is to walk that narrow trail in between, which is free-market capitalism and democracy. And keep big government at bay with our right hand and corporate power at bay with our left.

More
 
Bfgrn said:
Franklin Roosevelt said during World War II that the domination of government by corporate power is "the essence of fascism" and Benito Mussolini -- who had an insider's view of that process -- said the same thing. Essentially, he complained that fascism should not be called fascism. It should be called corporatism because it was the merger of state and corporate power.

Well first of all, your definition: "An economist should understand that the free market, like all things natural, is cold and merciless and it is not his job to make it less so", is not a civil society. What you are spewing is a JUNGLE society. That is not a democratic society our founders created. It would be a society that a Mussolini or a dictator would devise.

In general terms, every economic system is composed of people and institutions, including their relationships to productive resources, such as through the convention of property.

In creating and modifying its economic system, each society chooses among alternative objectives and alternative decision modes. Many objectives may be seen as desirable, like efficiency, growth, liberty, and equality.

An economic system can be considered a part of the social system and hierarchically equal to the law system, political system, cultural, etc.
wiki

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Directly related to the title of this thread, your grossly misinformed understanding of a civil society, economic systems and what a free market is and isn't, here is the best description I have seen. Why don't you try a different approach this time, take 2 minutes and READ it:
------------------------------------------------------------------------

There is nothing wrong with corporations. Corporations are a good thing. They encourage us to take risks. They maximize wealth. They create jobs. I own a corporation. They're a great thing, but they should not be running our government. The reason for that is they don't have the same aspirations for America that you and I do. A corporation does not want democracy. It does not want free markets, it wants profits, and the best way for it to get profits is to use our campaign-finance system -- which is just a system of legalized bribery -- to get their stakes, their hooks into a public official and then use that public official to dismantle the marketplace to give them a competitive advantage and then to privatize the commons, to steal the commonwealth, to liquidate public assets for cash, to plunder, to steal from the rest of us.

And that doesn't mean corporations are a bad thing. It just means they're amoral, and we have to recognize that and not let them into the political process. Let them do their thing, but they should not be participating in our political process, because a corporation cannot do something genuinely philanthropic. It's against the law in this country, because their shareholders can sue them for wasting corporate resources. They cannot legally do anything that will not increase their profit margins. That's the way the law works, and we have to recognize that and understand that they are toxic for the political process, and they have to be fenced off and kept out of the political process. This is why throughout our history our most visionary political leaders -- Republican and Democrat -- have been warning the American public against domination by corporate power.

The Bush White House has done a great job of persuading a gullible press and the American public that the big threat to American democracy is big government. Well, yeah, big government is a threat ultimately, but it is dwarfed by the threat of excessive corporate power and the corrosive impact that has on our democracy. And you know, as I said, you look at all the great political leaders in this country and the central theme is that we have to be cautious about, we have to avoid, the domination of our government by corporate power.

Teddy Roosevelt, a Republican, said that America would never be destroyed by a foreign power but he warned that our political institutions, our democratic institutions, would be subverted by malefactors of great wealth, who would erode them from within. Dwight Eisenhower, another Republican, in his most famous speech, warned America against domination by the military industrial complex.

Abraham Lincoln, the greatest Republican in our history, said during the height of the Civil War "I have the South in front of me and I have the bankers behind me. And for my country, I fear the bankers more." Franklin Roosevelt said during World War II that the domination of government by corporate power is "the essence of fascism" and Benito Mussolini -- who had an insider's view of that process -- said the same thing. Essentially, he complained that fascism should not be called fascism. It should be called corporatism because it was the merger of state and corporate power. And what we have to understand as Americans is that the domination of business by government is called communism. The domination of government by business is called fascism. And our job is to walk that narrow trail in between, which is free-market capitalism and democracy. And keep big government at bay with our right hand and corporate power at bay with our left.

More
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FDR was not a Founding Father. Try again.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
I'm sorry 3D and I mean well by saying this but you and flamboyant should never be used in the same sentence. You're about as flamboyant as a glass of chocolate milk. ;)
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Chocolate milk is extremely flamboyant when you accidentally spill it over a pair of DDs. More-so when you offer to clean it up.

:yay:
 
Dixie said:
A very good point indeed! I think he means, when we oust Obama and get rid of this current crop of socialist communists, and return to a free market which is currently being held hostage.
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Are you trying to say we enjoyed a free market under Bush?
 
Bfgrn said:
Franklin Roosevelt said during World War II that the domination of government by corporate power is "the essence of fascism" and Benito Mussolini -- who had an insider's view of that process -- said the same thing. Essentially, he complained that fascism should not be called fascism. It should be called corporatism because it was the merger of state and corporate power.

Well first of all, your definition: "An economist should understand that the free market, like all things natural, is cold and merciless and it is not his job to make it less so", is not a civil society. What you are spewing is a JUNGLE society. That is not a democratic society our founders created. It would be a society that a Mussolini or a dictator would devise.

In general terms, every economic system is composed of people and institutions, including their relationships to productive resources, such as through the convention of property.

In creating and modifying its economic system, each society chooses among alternative objectives and alternative decision modes. Many objectives may be seen as desirable, like efficiency, growth, liberty, and equality.

An economic system can be considered a part of the social system and hierarchically equal to the law system, political system, cultural, etc.
wiki

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Directly related to the title of this thread, your grossly misinformed understanding of a civil society, economic systems and what a free market is and isn't, here is the best description I have seen. Why don't you try a different approach this time, take 2 minutes and READ it:
------------------------------------------------------------------------

There is nothing wrong with corporations. Corporations are a good thing. They encourage us to take risks. They maximize wealth. They create jobs. I own a corporation. They're a great thing, but they should not be running our government. The reason for that is they don't have the same aspirations for America that you and I do. A corporation does not want democracy. It does not want free markets, it wants profits, and the best way for it to get profits is to use our campaign-finance system -- which is just a system of legalized bribery -- to get their stakes, their hooks into a public official and then use that public official to dismantle the marketplace to give them a competitive advantage and then to privatize the commons, to steal the commonwealth, to liquidate public assets for cash, to plunder, to steal from the rest of us.

And that doesn't mean corporations are a bad thing. It just means they're amoral, and we have to recognize that and not let them into the political process. Let them do their thing, but they should not be participating in our political process, because a corporation cannot do something genuinely philanthropic. It's against the law in this country, because their shareholders can sue them for wasting corporate resources. They cannot legally do anything that will not increase their profit margins. That's the way the law works, and we have to recognize that and understand that they are toxic for the political process, and they have to be fenced off and kept out of the political process. This is why throughout our history our most visionary political leaders -- Republican and Democrat -- have been warning the American public against domination by corporate power.

The Bush White House has done a great job of persuading a gullible press and the American public that the big threat to American democracy is big government. Well, yeah, big government is a threat ultimately, but it is dwarfed by the threat of excessive corporate power and the corrosive impact that has on our democracy. And you know, as I said, you look at all the great political leaders in this country and the central theme is that we have to be cautious about, we have to avoid, the domination of our government by corporate power.

Teddy Roosevelt, a Republican, said that America would never be destroyed by a foreign power but he warned that our political institutions, our democratic institutions, would be subverted by malefactors of great wealth, who would erode them from within. Dwight Eisenhower, another Republican, in his most famous speech, warned America against domination by the military industrial complex.

Abraham Lincoln, the greatest Republican in our history, said during the height of the Civil War "I have the South in front of me and I have the bankers behind me. And for my country, I fear the bankers more." Franklin Roosevelt said during World War II that the domination of government by corporate power is "the essence of fascism" and Benito Mussolini -- who had an insider's view of that process -- said the same thing. Essentially, he complained that fascism should not be called fascism. It should be called corporatism because it was the merger of state and corporate power. And what we have to understand as Americans is that the domination of business by government is called communism. The domination of government by business is called fascism. And our job is to walk that narrow trail in between, which is free-market capitalism and democracy. And keep big government at bay with our right hand and corporate power at bay with our left.

More
Click to expand...

Your education has led you to believe Franklin Roosevelt is a founding father?

Roosevelt was a socialist. Quite the opposite of the founders. The founders looked at the US government much like we look at the UN today.

Oh,,,, this explains a lot of what is obvious about the crap you say. Wait until you start reading the writings of the founding fathers. This of course means that you will have to read.

Start with something easy, like "Common Sense" by Thomas Payne.:awesome:
 
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