Why do people still believe in Jesus and Christianity?

[Into the Night]

They threatened to kill him if he did not renounce his work. Galileo caved.

No. They never threatened to kill him.

 

[Cypress]

Have some dignity. You failed.

So your ego prevents you from admitting your claim that the Greeks and Romans did not have a tradition of ethics and sacrifice was utterly wrong, and laughably so.

 

[Into the Night]

Not sure why you keep making up stuff I never said.

He's just taking your reasoning to it's logical conclusion. Figure it out, dude.

 

[Arks&sparka]

Not everybody needs to. Christ has promised resurrection for others as well. So far there is no public event of it ever happening yet.

For me to take someone's claim that Jesus was a myth they'd have needed to and provide evidence.

A hard thing to do, since not having an opinion on the matter leaves a void.

Well not really, the Skepticism is merited. Faith isn't.

But this is theism.

Sure.

 

[Into the Night]

*cough* Iran......

Iran is a state, but not a religion. Yes, the government is all Islam, but Islam itself is not a state.

The Catholic Church, on the other hand, is, and controls a state (the Vatican), in the heart of Rome. The Vatican is not part of Rome or Italy. It is it's own state, established and specifically for the Catholic Church. This state operates as a dictatorship. The Pope is the dictator. Transition of power is by oligarchy.

 

[Into the Night]

Okay very well.

So according to your *theory...

falsifiable theories are NOT an absolute.

So science is Not Absolute.

Do I have it correct?

No. Contextomy fallacy.

 

[Into the Night]

Lot of fancy words there chap, but not much in the way of clarity or understanding.

Ralph is right. He is calling you out on your circular argument fallacy. It is fundamentalism.

The red shift of photons from distant galaxies is observable and measurable.

Wups. Who is to say they are shifting at all due to doppler effects? Even if it was, nothing can be said other than that galaxies that we observe in our little part of the Universe that we can see are moving away from us. There is no reason to expect ALL galaxies, even the ones we cannot see, are moving away from us. This is not a proof. It is a hasty conclusion fallacy.

The cosmic microwave background is observable in the radio wave electromagnetic spectrum.

So? Stars put out light and radio waves (which are really just low frequency light). Has nothing to do with the Big Bang. Non-sequitur fallacy.

Big bang nucleosynthesis of light elements probably started out as a mathematical prediction, but it has been confirmed by spectral analysis of the cosmos.

Nope. Not confirmed. We cannot see distant stars in present time. Hasty conclusion fallacy.

Those are all predictions resulting from big bang theory which have been repeatedly tested.

Science does not need to perform a test more than once. Once is enough. Science does not use supporting evidence. It only uses conflicting evidence. Only religions use supporting evidence. The Theory of the Big Bang is not a theory of science. It is not falsifiable. It is a religion. It is fundamentalist in nature.

I do not rank the big bang theory up there with evolution by natural selection or quantuum mechanics in terms of degree of scientific confidence.

The Theory of the Big Bang is not science. It is a religion.
The Theory of Natural Selection has been falsified.
The Theory of Evolution is not science. It is a religion.
The theories in quantum mechanics are theories of science. They are falsifiable.

Science isn't a 'confidence'. Science is a set of falsifiable theories. The test MUST be performed against the null hypothesis of the theory. Mugging up examples of supporting evidence mean nothing.

We are still clueless about dark energy.

Define 'dark energy'.

But big bang theory makes predictions which can be tested to support or refute the theory.

Nope. You can't go back in time to see what actually happened. That is the only test available, but it's not practical to conduct.

That is well within the realm of a good, conventional, testable scientific theory

Nope. Science does not use supporting evidence. You can't test another theory and say you are testing the first theory.

 

[Arks&sparka]

Bingo.

Again, you are very observant here. Kudos. They do, however, try to force others to believe as part of their fundamentalism.

I think the are two types of evangelism. The kind where you go out and spread the word, and the kind where you preach fire and brimstone. I've actually seen both from vegans, but not from the climate catastrophe cult.

Such people are often about controlling others, leading right down the rotten road of the Church of Karl Marx, and all of the religions it has spawned, including the Church of Green (where veganism resides), the Church of Global Warming, and the Church of Covid. All of these religions are fundamentalist in nature. All of them are out to control others. Several of them are seeking to become state religions.

Exactly. They make up their own moral code and the enforcement structure of that code it very much is religious. And you don't see a lot of overlap between Muslims or Christians and that kind of religion. I guess supporting the idea you can't serve two gods.

 

[Into the Night]

I am someone who read all the research that agreed Galileo was arrested and threatened by the Church. One English professor dissents.

There is no research. It is simply recorded history.

 

[Into the Night]

I never heard of this guy. You do realize that one person's dissent does not establish fact.

Actually, it does. It establishes the fact that he was dissenting.

You need to learn what 'fact' means. Fact does not mean Universal Proof nor a proof.

 

[Into the Night]

I think with Iran it's a state sanctioned religion.

Bingo.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Great. Thanks for your clairvoyance.

CFM appears especially lonely this morning.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

There really doesn't need to be one....

You got one right! The rest was Bullshit 2c

 

[Into the Night]

For me to take someone's claim that Jesus was a myth they'd have needed to and provide evidence.

Here one must look at what a 'myth' is.

A myth is a story involving 'supernatural' beings or phenomena. Here, 'supernatural' simply means anything not understood by any other means, such as science, engineering, math, or logic. A myth is not the beings or phenomena itself. It's a story about them.

To say Jesus Christ is a myth is simply a misuse of the word. Stories in the Bible are myths. Are they true? That's debatable. In the end, one can only believe them to be true on faith.

To say Jesus Christ never existed except in imagination is really what he is trying to say here. That's a positive statement. The burden of proof is upon the one making it.

Well not really, the Skepticism is merited. Faith isn't.

Faith is certainly merited! Without faith, one can do nothing. It takes faith to inspire a theory, to construct the null hypothesis for it, to test that null hypothesis, and to thus bring that theory into the body of science. It takes faith that the theory might be correct. A theory can never be proven True, so that faith is still there. The thing that takes a theory of science beyond the simple circular argument is that test against the null hypothesis of that theory.

A theory of science might still be wrong. Faith is still required to make use of it.

Faith is everywhere. It is faith that lets you walk with confidence outside, even though some guy you never met never having fitted the brakes or steering properly on that car heading down the street towards you might make a big difference in your life.
It is faith that gets you to the job interview in the hope of getting that job.
It is faith that the bus or plane you intend to catch will more or less arrive on time.

Yes, skepticism is merited, but do not discount the role of faith!

 

[Arks&sparka]

Here one must look at what a 'myth' is.

A myth is a story involving 'supernatural' beings or phenomena. Here, 'supernatural' simply means anything not understood by any other means, such as science, engineering, math, or logic. A myth is not the beings or phenomena itself. It's a story about them.

To say Jesus Christ is a myth is simply a misuse of the word. Stories in the Bible are myths. Are they true? That's debatable. In the end, one can only believe them to be true on faith.

To say Jesus Christ never existed except in imagination is really what he is trying to say here. That's a positive statement. The burden of proof is upon the one making it.

Faith is certainly merited! Without faith, one can do nothing. It takes faith to inspire a theory, to construct the null hypothesis for it, to test that null hypothesis, and to thus bring that theory into the body of science. It takes faith that the theory might be correct. A theory can never be proven True, so that faith is still there. The thing that takes a theory of science beyond the simple circular argument is that test against the null hypothesis of that theory.

A theory of science might still be wrong. Faith is still required to make use of it.

Faith is everywhere. It is faith that lets you walk with confidence outside, even though some guy you never met never having fitted the brakes or steering properly on that car heading down the street towards you might make a big difference in your life.
It is faith that gets you to the job interview in the hope of getting that job.
It is faith that the bus or plane you intend to catch will more or less arrive on time.

Yes, skepticism is merited, but do not discount the role of faith!

I would disagree with you on this one Faith requires a leap. It is not the easy path. Accepting an authority greater than you requires some humbleness and it's not easy.

Matthew 7:14.

It takes discipline and strength and these days more and more courage to profess your faith. Sometimes for me it takes everything I have to remain faithful. It is so easy to say it doesn't matter and I can do whatever I want and believe and act and whatever way I wish. And is our society slowly falls into more and more degeneracy with the temptation is greater and greater.

I think it's some more difficult and it cuts against you within the realm of academia to be a member of a faith unless you're Muslim. And they only like Muslims because of tokenism.

 

[Chuck]

The western world is better off by far thanks to Christianity's rise and influences; it really doesn't matter how many piss ant mentally ill sexual deviants and angry teenagers don't like that, so the OP is another pointless result of indulging idiotic juvenile faggotry as if its a valid view.

 

[Into the Night]

I think the are two types of evangelism. The kind where you go out and spread the word, and the kind where you preach fire and brimstone. I've actually seen both from vegans, but not from the climate catastrophe cult.

I agree. I have seen the same.

Exactly. They make up their own moral code and the enforcement structure of that code it very much is religious. And you don't see a lot of overlap between Muslims or Christians and that kind of religion. I guess supporting the idea you can't serve two gods.

Again, well argued.

The reason Islam and Christianity aren't compatible is because of their beliefs about Jesus Christ.
Islam does not believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God. At best, he was an inspired teacher of God, but no more.
Christianity believes Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Being such, and also by living a perfect life, he holds many of the same powers as God Himself. He defers all of his authority to God in all of his prayers and teachings, but that He (Christ) is the only path back to God. Christ is our advocate with God. Some Christian factions see Christ and God as the same person for some reason, even though one is clearly praying and talking about the other as if they were separate beings, but both holy.
Jews also believe Christ to not be the Son of God, but instead look upon Him as an inspired teacher, or Rabboni (a rabbi of rabbis).

All three religions believe in God.

Christ Himself says his gospel and teachings are one (or the same as) with God the Father. So, while there are two gods here, they are of the same mind and teachings. To follow one is to follow the other. It is, simply, to follow one gospel. There is no conflict.

 

[Arks&sparka]

I agree. I have seen the same.

Again, well argued.

The reason Islam and Christianity aren't compatible is because of their beliefs about Jesus Christ.
Islam does not believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God. At best, he was an inspired teacher of God, but no more.
Christianity believes Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Being such, and also by living a perfect life, he holds many of the same powers as God Himself. He defers all of his authority to God in all of his prayers and teachings, but that He (Christ) is the only path back to God. Christ is our advocate with God. Some Christian factions see Christ and God as the same person for some reason, even though one is clearly praying and talking about the other as if they were separate beings, but both holy.
Jews also believe Christ to not be the Son of God, but instead look upon Him as an inspired teacher, or Rabboni (a rabbi of rabbis).

All three religions believe in God.

Christ Himself says his gospel and teachings are one (or the same as) with God the Father. So, while there are two gods here, they are of the same mind and teachings. To follow one is to follow the other. It is, simply, to follow one gospel. There is no conflict.

I agree Christianity and Islam are incompatible belief systems. But coexistence between these two religions can happen it happens here in the United States. I think it requires our brand of culture. As I'm sure though Europeans will grind their teeth over this, our culture is more enlightened.

 

[Into the Night]

I would disagree with you on this one Faith requires a leap. It is not the easy path. Accepting an authority greater than you requires some humbleness and it's not easy.

Matthew 7:14.

It takes discipline and strength and these days more and more courage to profess your faith. Sometimes for me it takes everything I have to remain faithful. It is so easy to say it doesn't matter and I can do whatever I want and believe and act and whatever way I wish. And is our society slowly falls into more and more degeneracy with the temptation is greater and greater.

I think it's some more difficult and it cuts against you within the realm of academia to be a member of a faith unless you're Muslim. And they only like Muslims because of tokenism.

Let me clarify what I mean by 'faith'.

Faith is just another word that describes the circular argument. It is an argument that supports itself by using it's own conclusion as a predicate. This is not a fallacy, BTW. It is a logical construct.

The circular argument fallacy is when someone tries to prove the circular argument True or False. This cannot be done. The argument uses it's own conclusion as a predicate. Therefore, such a proof is circular in nature and therefore invalid.

The circular argument is also called the Argument of Faith (or simply 'faith').

Yes, it requires a certain leap. It requires the idea that the argument might very well be True.

When you go to catch that bus, you have faith that the bus will arrive reasonably on time and get you to your destination more or less on time. That IS the circular argument. That the bus will arrive on time and get you to your destination on time. It is both predicate and conclusion.

Can you prove that the bus will arrive on time and get to your destination on time? No. You can't prove a True here. Can you prove the bus will be late or not get you to your destination on time? No. You can't prove a False here.

In other words, you can go expect to catch a bus and expect it to get you to your destination on time, but there is NO proof possible that it will actually do so. In other words, you MUST take it all on faith.

That's just for a bus. Yes, it requires a leap. It requires you to leap to the conclusion that your bus will do what is expected of it.

Humbleness is certainly not easy! Matthew here is correct in 7:14. Man tends to be proud, but one must humble himself enough to accept the authority, the blessings, and the teachings of Jesus Christ and God. He must become like a little child, learning from his parents. He must often discard preconceived notions much of the time. That's tough. We each gather such things easily. The college degree. The fat paycheck. The position we hold at work. The notions we get when raising our kids. We must put them ALL into the hands of another, Jesus Christ. Each of these things is not evil, but we must put them in the hands of Christ, if we are to fully benefit from his gospel.

That is tough to do. No doubt about it!

 

[Into the Night]

I agree Christianity and Islam are incompatible belief systems. But coexistence between these two religions can happen it happens here in the United States. I think it requires our brand of culture. As I'm sure though Europeans will grind their teeth over this, our culture is more enlightened.

Truly! We are one of the few republics out there, blessed with an inspired constitution. Only here, in the United States, is every religious view tolerated with equal dignity or disdain, at least in the view set forth by that constitution.