Why I'm a Liberal

Rose said:
Vertical management with the motive of profit.

Or are you a closet Trot, or something? ;)
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Being a first generation American with western European parents I have a mixture of personal beliefs but my question to you was, what makes you think you know what beliefs I adhere to?
By the way, as an artist I work for the sake of the work itself not profit.
 
Rune said:
Being a first generation American with western European parents I have a mixture of personal beliefs but my question to you was, what makes you think you know what beliefs I adhere to?
By the way, as an artist I work for the sake of the work itself not profit.
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That's all well and good. But you have got to be kidding. I've 'known' you on this site since the beginning of the year. Your views are very much in line with social liberalism and social democracy. You've also made a point of aiming your disgust at my socialism.

So let's cut it with the games and Machismo posturing. Are you, or are you not, in favor of private property.
 
Boris The Animal said:
'Scuse me, but that's outright Communism and that's working very well in Soviet Russia. WHAT?? You mean Russia's Communist paradise collapsed?? :O
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That's not communism. And communism never existed in the Soviet Union. There may have been communists, but they, in large part, found their home in Moscow.
 
Rationalist said:
My wife and I went to see Elysium last week. The most striking thing was the sheer plausibility of the storyline: a world consisting entirely of the haves (<1%) and have-nots (>99%), lack of corporate oversight, lack of worker protections, etc.

This is an issue I've been giving much thought, as I'm beginning to realize that whether they realize it or not, this is precisely the sort of world desired by many Republican politicians. It also occurs to me that what they call "socialism" actually works pretty damned well in most western countries. Australia has a $16/hour minimum wage and single-payer healthcare, and they completely dodged the recession. Denmark has a de facto $19/hour minimum wage, the highest taxes in the western world, and a government twice the size of ours per capita, but they also have full employment and are one of the happiest and healthiest countries. Virtually every western country offers universal healthcare - they spend less, their people are healthier than ours, and the vast majority of their people support this system. How the fuck am I supposed to argue against any of that?

I'm not an ideological person. I don't think government programs are always the answer. I'm for whatever works. There are certainly times when cutbacks are necessary, and that is where fiscal conservatives can play a role. But if a government program is the answer to a particular problem, so be it.

Ultimately, the burden of proof lies with those making the claim, and as it currently stands, liberalism offers a much more plausible, testable, and proven model.
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You are not a “liberal” in any American traditional sense of constitutional liberalism. What you actually are is a leftist socialist which is as moon’s distance from traditional classical American constitutional liberalism.

The countries which you present as some kind of evidence of successful socialism, are all minute little establishments with populations fractional to that of the United States and hardly more, if at all more than most American individual States. They have no national defense to speak of, No Military Industrial Complex like America. No military bases and troops in over 120 other nations. They have no American Drug War Culture or Urban Gang-Bangers nor the high degree of socialist vote purchases made on a racist basis by racist American Democrats.

You see, socialism may well be fine and dandy if it can be controlled, i. e. a “social safety net.” Our founding fathers understood that a huge central government composed of several states, unlike the countries you present, instituting a federal social safety net in America, would simply be a cluster fuck of bribery, favoritism and pure uncontrollable fucking stupidity. Thus, they created a Constitutional Republic that gave ”particular” and ”limited” powers to the central government and gave all other powers, whims and follies to the individual States as long as they didn’t violate the National Constitution. Thereby establishing a nation of microcosm laboratories deciding such social establishments for themselves and thereby learning the proper do’s and do-not’s from one another while at the same time incorporating the particular economic availabilities and state’s citizens particular needs and desires and also holding up and holding dear the ability of every citizen to vote with their feet, i. e. if they didn’t like the particular state’s established social system and or the cost thereof, they could simply move to another state whereby they could more likely pursue their happiness.

To acknowledge and accept that pure rationality and genius, you must become a constitutionalist purist patriot and Classic Liberal and put aside the childish things, the racism, slavery and the bankrupting follies of America’s fucking idiot Democrats and Republicans.

“IT’S NOT COMPLICATED!”
 
Rose said:
That's not communism. And communism never existed in the Soviet Union. There may have been communists, but they, in large part, found their home in Moscow.
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Where has your Communist Utopia ever been realized Goober? Name a single place in the world where Communism has ever been successful or even established by your purist standards.

Pure communism is a fucking pie-in-the-sky folly, totally contrary to human nature, rationality, common sense and sanity. Every communist attempt turns into a fucking corrupt totalitarian vicious dictatorship and impoverished squalor.
 
Rune said:
Social Security is socialism. Fire and police departments are socialism. Interstate Highways are socialism Public schools are socialism.
It is as simple as you laid out in your first sentence.
1% of the population are haves and will do anything to keep it that way. They do not care who lives or dies from starvation, lack of medical care, or their wars.
In spite of these facts, somehow they manage to get nearly 50% of the downtrodden, the paupers, to vote for them, in elections with pre-determined outcomes.

Eliminate the electoral college and we can start talking about democratic principles.
Until then, be happy with your oligarchy, since you voted for it.
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"Social Security is socialism. Fire and police departments are socialism. Interstate Highways are socialism Public schools are socialism."

Thats almost the stupidest claim I've heard in months.....

You BUY something and you get what YOU'VE paid for....is that socialism ?....IDIOT.

Is auto, fire, theft, etc. insurance socialism ? Is any kind of insurance socialism...?
You pay a teacher to teach your kid.....is that socialism ?
You pay a guard to protect you and your property....is that socialism ?
 
NOVA said:
"Social Security is socialism. Fire and police departments are socialism. Interstate Highways are socialism Public schools are socialism."

Thats almost the stupidest claim I've heard in months.....

You BUY something and you get what YOU'VE paid for....is that socialism ?....IDIOT.

Is auto, fire, theft, etc. insurance socialism ? Is any kind of insurance socialism...?
You pay a teacher to teach your kid.....is that socialism ?
You pay a guard to protect you and your property....is that socialism ?
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If you pay the teacher through public funds? Yes....it's socialism.

If you have an army paid by the public dollar to protect your kids? Yeah....that's socialism.

If you pay a guard(police) to protect your property, paid by the public dollar?...what do you call it?
 
Steelplate said:
If you pay the teacher through public funds? Yes....it's socialism.

If you have an army paid by the public dollar to protect your kids? Yeah....that's socialism.

If you pay a guard(police) to protect your property, paid by the public dollar?...what do you call it?
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How many times must I explain this? Socialism isn't just a fancy word for government ownership. It means worker, democratic ownership. These aren't the same thing.
 
Rose said:
How many times must I explain this? Socialism isn't just a fancy word for government ownership. It means worker, democratic ownership. These aren't the same thing.
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Somehow you will learn that making word definitions exact is not productive. It is arguing semantics, always a distraction and a waste of time.
We value your opinion, not your corrections.
 
NOVA said:
"Social Security is socialism. Fire and police departments are socialism. Interstate Highways are socialism Public schools are socialism."

Thats almost the stupidest claim I've heard in months.....

You BUY something and you get what YOU'VE paid for....is that socialism ?....IDIOT.

Is auto, fire, theft, etc. insurance socialism ? Is any kind of insurance socialism...?
You pay a teacher to teach your kid.....is that socialism ?
You pay a guard to protect you and your property....is that socialism ?
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Pretty funny Bravo, YOU FUCKING MORON.
1. I never said anything about insurance, Retard.
2. Society pays for the above mentioned things. For God's sake even the name of Social Security has the root word of socialism in it.

I realise how shocked you are to see that even this country uses socialistic systems, but then, you are a moron.
 
Rationalist said:
My wife and I went to see Elysium last week. The most striking thing was the sheer plausibility of the storyline: a world consisting entirely of the haves (<1%) and have-nots (>99%), lack of corporate oversight, lack of worker protections, etc.
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Do you see any irony in the fact that this nightmare world you envision without the oversight of socialism can be found today in Communist China?
 
Rune said:
2. Society pays for the above mentioned things. For God's sake even the name of Social Security has the root word of socialism in it.

I realise how shocked you are to see that even this country uses socialistic systems, but then, you are a moron.
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Fire and police departments are socialism? How about the military?

It seems in your world that anything government = socialism.

That would leave us a pretty slim choice between socialism and anarchy.
 
Agree with me said:
So you get paid in dictionaries?
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So you do not understand the relationship between an artist and a patron and would rather ask stupid questions than resort to using a dictionary? You don't even need a real dictionary, just type a word you are unfamiliar with into google.
 
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