Why no lines? Why no shortage?

Damocles said:
Again, this is inane. Because it is at the pump when YOU want to buy it does not demonstrate that supply and demand is not working.

We have dropped usage in OIL in the past months from last year for the first time since the OPEC crisis, this shows that price IS effecting usage and that the supply is therefore setting the price agreeable with demand. They increase when supply is short until it reaches a sustainable level.

Shortages and lines are created by artificially interrupting the process. Like Nixon's price fixing.
Click to expand...

I agree that the price affects usage, to an extent, I dont belive at the current levels, the useage affects the price, except that they use useage to decide how fed up the consumer is, when lack of useage hits them in the pocket book, they will drop the price again.
 
AssHatZombie said:
Have you heard of ANYONE being unable to get it? It's not just that Jarod is lucky. It's that there is no supply problems and it's a vast manipulation on the part of the fascist machine.
Click to expand...
Yes. Those who cannot afford the prices cannot get it, and are not getting it thus increasing the available commodity for those who can afford it at the current pricing set by supply and demand. Those 30% in the Denver Area choosing to use the world's suckiest public transport are a very good example.

Nobody would purposefully use Denver's public transport system. You have to leave three hours early in order to get anywhere. Six hours of travel time to and from work is too much.
 
Damocles said:
Again, that the limited supply is fabricated through other means does not change that it is what set the prices.

The limit is set through many different means, by refineries, etc. None of it changes the basic economic model.

We'd likely agree that there is profit incentive to decrease supply. But it doesn't change that it is Supply and Demand that is setting the price.
Click to expand...

I would agree with that if you consider the oil companies, holding back on huge supplies, as a limit on supply.
 
Damocles said:
Yes. Those who cannot afford the prices cannot get it, and are not getting it thus increasing the available commodity for those who can afford it at the current pricing set by supply and demand. Those 30% in the Denver Area choosing to use the world's suckiest public transport are a very good example.
Click to expand...


But it's due to a price problem, not an actual supply problem. And according to supply and demand when people stop using it as much, the price should go down. Its not.
 
AssHatZombie said:
Supply and demand are not automatically morally pure, because both are manipulated by corporations and their friends in government.
Click to expand...
Definitely not. That is not my argument. As I said, I believe that they artificially create the supply "shortage" by several means.
 
If you dont like Denver's public transit, you should try Florida's. Miami is the only city with any form of transit to speak of.
 
Not drilling available leases is holding back on supply.
Shutting down refineries and importing refined gasoline is limiting supply.
 
Jarod said:
I would agree with that if you consider the oil companies, holding back on huge supplies, as a limit on supply.
Click to expand...
What do you think, "Artificially created" means? Please, I need to know how to communicate with you....
 
uscitizen said:
Not drilling available leases is holding back on supply.
Shutting down refineries and importing refined gasoline is limiting supply.
Click to expand...
Yes. Both of which would increase the price because demand is high, while supply is artificially limited.

WHY something is limited doesn't change basic Economic Theory or its application. There is nothing moral or immoral about Supply and Demand, it just is.
 
If I sell food, and I am the onlyone allowed by the government to sell food and also am allowed by the government to set the price myself, I will charge as much as I can, without getting the government upset at me. If my friends run the government, that price is much higher than if my friends do not run the government.
 
Jarod said:
If you dont like Denver's public transit, you should try Florida's. Miami is the only city with any form of transit to speak of.
Click to expand...
Denver is the only city in CO that has such a system as well. And it is worse than, or equal to, Miami's I'll bet.
 
Jarod said:
If I sell food, and I am the onlyone allowed by the government to sell food and also am allowed by the government to set the price myself, I will charge as much as I can, without getting the government upset at me. If my friends run the government, that price is much higher than if my friends do not run the government.
Click to expand...
That is another form of 'artificial means' to limit supply. Government control can be, and often is, part of the problem. Hence my example with Nixon's price setting.
 
Damocles said:
What do you think, "Artificially created" means? Please, I need to know how to communicate with you....
Click to expand...

Okay then we agree. Its not about the amount available, but about the amount they are willing to sell at any given time.
 
Jarod said:
Okay then we agree. Its not about the amount available, but about the amount they are willing to sell at any given time.
Click to expand...
I think they limit refineries, for example, so they have an excuse to reduce supply when they wish. When oil starts to drop, some refineries will suddenly be brought down for 'upgrades' for instance. They use this to strangle the supply and thus using artificial means increase prices as the demand remains high.
 
Unfortuantely it is also about how high the price has to be to get the USA to pursue alt energy and conservation and reasonable use habits.

Damned nation of gas junkies and hogs.
But then one of our primary Gods is the car.
 
Topspin said:
it's about what you are willing to pay
Click to expand...
It's about anti-trust violations and price-fixing being employed between the large corps. If you pretend that this kind of thing never happens and that Oil companies are clean of this, then you do not know the history of anti-trust laws.

They create an artificial short "supply". The price of a barrel does NOT support the price currently at the pump.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top