Why you are blind to Biden's success...

BartenderElite said:
You didn't answer my question. And I support Israel - always have. But I support innocents everywhere.
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I will but you made a claim that you support Israels right to retaliate and I am questioning the validity of your claim. You nicely dodged it btw.

As to your question I will answer here, nuking gaza would be too far but who said, moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue. I think the same could be said for Israel who is surrounded by people who want them gone. Now answer my question.
 
BartenderElite said:
It's really ridiculous that thinking in America has gotten so black & white that it's somehow not possible to support both Israel and innocent civilians in Gaza.
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You want Israelis to walk door to door looking for soldiers in hamas uniforms is that it?
 
Yakuda said:
I don't believe for a moment you support Israel. If Israel has a right to retaliate as you claim but hamas uses civilians as cover then how does Israel exercise their right to retaliate without gaining the ire of American leftists when civilians are killed when they do retaliate because Hamas put them in danger?
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Clearly, you're not paying attention to what's going on - and you characterization is detached from reality, unless by "American leftists" you mean Trump, most conservatives, most of the world an pretty much anyone w/ morality.

Obviously, there will be collateral damage. Israel has been too indiscriminate, and has gone too far. Casualties are way too high, and conditions for the civilians are unimaginable right now.

If you claim to have a moral position, I'd be interested if you posted even once about the suffering of civilians in Gaza.
 
BartenderElite said:
Clearly, you're not paying attention to what's going on - and you characterization is detached from reality, unless by "American leftists" you mean Trump, most conservatives, most of the world an pretty much anyone w/ morality.

Obviously, there will be collateral damage. Israel has been too indiscriminate, and has gone too far. Casualties are way too high, and conditions for the civilians are unimaginable right now.

If you claim to have a moral position, I'd be interested if you posted even once about the suffering of civilians in Gaza.
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You didn't read what I wrote did you? Israel defended itself and your pissed. Nobody in Israel gives a shit what American leftists think. If they do they shouldn't.

You used "too" alot there. When does self preservation become "too" much in the mind of an American leftist? Tell us. You sit in your comfortable little world complaining that Israel wants to protect itself from destruction but your offended that theyve gone ,"too" far. The miserable bastards wont just march off to the ovens huh?
 
Yakuda said:
You didn't read what I wrote did you? Israel defended itself and your pissed. Nobody in Israel gives a shit what American leftists think. If they do they shouldn't.

You used "too" alot there. When does self preservation become "too" much in the mind of an American leftist? Tell us. You sit in your comfortable little world complaining that Israel wants to protect itself from destruction but your offended that theyve gone ,"too" far. The miserable bastards wont just march off to the ovens huh?
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Well, that'll do it for me. Enjoy your conversation with yourself, and your characterizations that have nothing to do w/ reality.
 
BartenderElite said:
Well, that'll do it for me. Enjoy your conversation with yourself, and your characterizations that have nothing to do w/ reality.
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What are you running from? You claim Israel has the right to retaliate but not "too"much right? When is it "too" much? You made a statement. Defend it. Who should Israel check with to determine when they've retaliated "too" much? I'm not asking anything unreasonable from you.
 
Yakuda said:
What are you running from? You claim Israel has the right to retaliate but not "too"much right? When is it "too" much? You made a statement. Defend it. Who should Israel check with to determine when they've retaliated "too" much? I'm not asking anything unreasonable from you.
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Once you imply that I want a return to Holocaust Germany, simply because I'm concerned about civilians in Gaza (including many children) - the discussion is over. You don't want a serious conversation.
 
BartenderElite said:
Once you imply that I want a return to Holocaust Germany, simply because I'm concerned about civilians in Gaza (including many children) - the discussion is over. You don't want a serious conversation.
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Feign offense and you don't need to answer right? The heart of the matter remains. You claim Israel can retaliate but not "too" much. What does that mean? Who determines what's "too" much? You? Hamas puts civilians in harms way for just this reason. So I ask you AGAIN how does Israel exercise it's right to retaliate while being sure they don't retaliate "too" much so people don't condemn them for it? Hamas puts those people in harms way but I haven't seen a thread yet condemning them for it.
 
Israel is in a true 'check mate' scenario that many of their enemies enjoy.

Without taking sides on the ongoing issue I will simply say that there is no way for Israel to engage with a deeply embedded Hamas within city settings where Palestinian citizens are all around that would not make the US trying to deal with Viet Cong in tunnels, look like a picnic.

The congested city settings and underground corridors, with innocent people all around, that only Israeli soldiers would not willing shoot around, create an absolute ideal defensive positions where you could not even estimate the Israeli soldier losses to dig out a very small group of terrorists. Literal fish in a barrel.

And if Israel refuses to engage because of the above purposely crafted defensive positions, they will face a massive ramp of attacks, one after another by a safe and protected Hamas who know their defense is impenetrable.

So Israel is dammed if they attack, because of the mass casualties amongst civilians that will follow. And they are dammed if they do not, because if a gov't cannot keep its citizens safe, they will be outed.


I like to ask people to engage in this hypothetical.

Imagine within Canada, they have a terrorist group (they have had some) that is deeply embedded within some city and is targeting US cities and citizens with missiles. Imagine the Cdn gov't says to the US 'sorry we cannot get them out as it would do too much damage and kill too many innocents who live in the area'.

What does America do next? How much concern do you think America has for collateral damage??
 
QP! said:
Israel is in a true 'check mate' scenario that many of their enemies enjoy.

Without taking sides on the ongoing issue I will simply say that there is no way for Israel to engage with a deeply embedded Hamas within city settings where Palestinian citizens are all around that would not make the US trying to deal with Viet Cong in tunnels, look like a picnic.

The congested city settings and underground corridors, with innocent people all around, that only Israeli soldiers would not willing shoot around, create an absolute ideal defensive positions where you could not even estimate the Israeli soldier losses to dig out a very small group of terrorists. Literal fish in a barrel.

And if Israel refuses to engage because of the above purposely crafted defensive positions, they will face a massive ramp of attacks, one after another by a safe and protected Hamas who know their defense is impenetrable.

So Israel is dammed if they attack, because of the mass casualties amongst civilians that will follow. And they are dammed if they do not, because if a gov't cannot keep its citizens safe, they will be outed.


I like to ask people to engage in this hypothetical.

Imagine within Canada, they have a terrorist group (they have had some) that is deeply embedded within some city and is targeting US cities and citizens with missiles. Imagine the Cdn gov't says to the US 'sorry we cannot get them out as it would do too much damage and kill too many innocents who live in the area'.

What does America do next? How much concern do you think America has for collateral damage??
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Is the population 60% children and elderly?
 
Earl said:
He has thrown Israel under the bus, too.

He now supports the Hamas (a terrorist group) demands for a ceasefire.
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Israel is an international pariah. Engaged in systematic slaughter of innocents. Biden should toss Netanyahu to the curb.
 
I'm surprised that some of the righties haven't caught up to the fact that even Trump is speaking out about Israel.

Who knows? Maybe they won't vote for him & will think he "support Hamas"....
 
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