WND: Apparently the Governor Can't Find the Birth Certificate

[Bonestorm]

IMO, they should have been required to prove they met the mandated qualifications. Why SHOULDN'T a candidate be required to prove they are qualified for the office? If nothing else, this controversy has had the positive effect of disclosing a hole in the process we use to select our president.

Does anyone have a valid reason ANY political candidate should NOT follow the laws of the states in proving their eligibility for elected office?

Because states do not have the authority to make eligibility determinations.

 

[christiefan915]

why was mccain held to a different standard than any other candidate? why do you libs never ask that question.....because.....it must be due to obama's skin color

race card fail

The only reason McCain's BC was mentioned at all was as a response to all the RW wackjob birther nonsense about Obama.

 

[Canceled1]

We've been through this before. Hawaiian law provides for non- US citizens to obtain a COLB, therefore it provides nothing regarding that actual place of birth. Do you doubt me on this? If so issue a direct challenge so I can rub your nose in it later.

With regards to the electoral process, I point to the election of 1796 as an example of votes being withheld:

Read more: Domestic Affairs - The Federalist Republic - Adams, Hamilton, Washington, French, France, President, Cabinet, and American http://www.libraryindex.com/history...ffairs-federalist-republic.html#ixzz1BgJ7H5rN​

YOU BETTER LINK THE HELL UP AND THE LINK THE HELL UP NOW!

 

[Good Luck]

There is nothing in the Constitution that gives the states the power to determine eligibility for office.

Say the person who hasn't a foggy fucking clue what the Constitution actually says. Go learn something before you spout off your sheer and total ignorance.

Hint: in addition to Article II giving full control of the Electoral College to the state legislatures, the 10th Amendment states specifically that if a power is not specified to the federal government, then it is reserved to the states, or the people. Since nowhere in the Constitution does it give the federal government power to determine eligibility, then that power IS delegated to the states.

Proof of identity is different from proof of natural born citizenship.

LOL Are your REALLY going to stand by the idea that state identity laws do not include origin of birth? Mindless twit. Try getting your head out of the donkey's ass just ONCE in your pathetic life.

 

[DamnYankee]

Non-citizens may be able to obtain a COLB, but Obama's says right on it that he was born in Honolulu so it does indeed prove he was born in Hawaii.




And I didn't ask for an example of electors not voting for a particular candidate, I asked for a citation for your assertion that states can withhold electoral votes unless the candidates provide proof of qualification.

1. :lol: So if the Obama claims something that's proof? The only thing that proves is that you are a partisan hack.
2. My example was of states withholding their electoral votes. They can do it for any legal reason.

 

[Cancel 2018. 3]

The only reason McCain's BC was mentioned at all was as a response to all the RW wackjob birther nonsense about Obama.

bullshit....thats pathetic, even for you

 

[DamnYankee]

There is nothing in the Constitution that gives the states the power to determine eligibility for office.

You clearly don't understand the key basic concept of the Constitution. It doesn't say what the People or the States can do; it says only what the Federal government can do.

 

[Bonestorm]

You clearly don't understand the key basic concept of the Constitution. It doesn't say what the People or the States can do; it says only what the Federal government can do.

So, in your view, a state can decide additional eligibility requirements for the office of the president of the United States?

 

[Bonestorm]

So if the Obama claims something that's proof? The only thing that proves is that you are a partisan hack.

No, you said that the COLB "provides nothing regarding the actual place of birth." That's just not true. It says he was born in Honolulu.

2. My example was of states withholding their electoral votes. They can do it for any legal reason.

You example was of electors not voting for a particular candidate.

 

[DamnYankee]

So, in your view, a state can decide additional eligibility requirements for the office of the president of the United States?

Irrelevant. The issue here is that these States consider it their solemn obligation to require a candidate to prove conformance with the Federal Constitution before they will exercise their electoral voting rights.

 

[Damocles]

my theory is he believes if people are wondering where he came from they will have less time to wonder where he's going......

The problem with that is, we seem capable of doing both at once. Hence his need to strong arm his own party into passing the crappy health care malformation bill.

 

[DamnYankee]

No, you said that the COLB "provides nothing regarding the actual place of birth." That's just not true. It says he was born in Honolulu.




You example was of electors not voting for a particular candidate.

1. I have provided the State Statute in the past to prove you wrong. Must I do so yet again?

2. My example was the electors withholding their vote.

 

[Bonestorm]

1. I have provided the State Statute in the past to prove you wrong. Must I do so yet again?

Apparently, yes. I fail to see what the statute has to do with the COLB stating that Obama was born in Honolulu. It does not necessarily follow from the fact that foreign born persons can obtain COLBs that foreign born persons can obtain COLBs that say they were born in Honolulu if they were in fact born abroad.

2. My example was the electors withholding their vote.

Whatever.

 

[Phantasmal]

Hawaii Gov. Neil Abercrombie suggested in an interview published today that a long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate for Barack Obama may not exist within the vital records maintained by the Hawaii Department of Health.

Abercrombie told the Honolulu Star Advertiser he was searching within the Hawaii Department of Health to find definitive vital records that would prove Obama was born in Hawaii, because the continuing eligibility controversy could hurt the president's chances of re-election in 2012.

Donalyn Dela Cruz, Abercrombie's spokeswoman in Honolulu, ignored again today another in a series of repeated requests made by WND for an interview with the governor.

Toward the end of the interview, the newspaper asked Abercrombie: "You stirred up quite a controversy with your comments regarding birthers and your plan to release more information regarding President Barack Obama's birthcertificate. How is that coming?"

In his response, Abercrombie acknowledged the birth certificate issue will have "political implications" for the next presidential election "that we simply cannot have."

Read more: Hawaii governor can't find Obama birth certificate http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=252833#ixzz1BayEjbPn

My friend is also having the same problem with the state of Hawaii. Seems they have a real problem with their record keeping.

This is just ridiculous. I think all person born in Hawaii should rise up...

 

[BRUTALITOPS]

If some states find a way to keep the President of the United States of America off the ballot...YES

if that happens it will be the fucking funniest thing ever. the only joy i get from politics is other peoples misery

 

[Phantasmal]

The problem with that is, we seem capable of doing both at once. Hence his need to strong arm his own party into passing the crappy health care malformation bill.

I am sorry you hate the health care bill so much, it has helped so many people, college kids and seniors with medication, people like myself with pre-existing conditions.

It is a real shame you wish to endanger your fellow Americans.

 

[Phantasmal]

If he doesn't provide the documents, yes.

Birther, you have finally shown your true colors, thank you.

 

[Phantasmal]

If that does happen, it will cause a division in this country that can never be healed. It will not work out in the long run for conservatives.

They are panicked because it is the only way they can win in 2012, they don't have anyone strong enough to beat him.

This is ridiculous.

 

[DamnYankee]

Apparently, yes. I fail to see what the statute has to do with the COLB stating that Obama was born in Honolulu. It does not necessarily follow from the fact that foreign born persons can obtain COLBs that foreign born persons can obtain COLBs that say they were born in Honolulu if they were in fact born abroad.




Whatever.

1. Again, here is the statute:

[§338-17.8] Certificates for children born out of State. (a) Upon application of an adult or the legal parents of a minor child, the director of health shall issue a birth certificate for such adult or minor, provided that proof has been submitted to the director of health that the legal parents of such individual while living without the Territory or State of Hawaii had declared the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding the birth or adoption of such child.

(b) Proof of legal residency shall be submitted to the director of health in any manner that the director shall deem appropriate. The director of health may also adopt any rules pursuant to chapter 91 that he or she may deem necessary or proper to prevent fraudulent applications for birth certificates and to require any further information or proof of events necessary for completion of a birth certificate.

(c) The fee for each application for registration shall be established by rule adopted pursuant to chapter 91. [L 1982, c 182, §1]

As originally posted here, where you were a party to the conversation:

http://www.justplainpolitics.com/showpost.php?p=753065&postcount=130

2. I'll take that as to you not being man enough to admit I am right and you are wrong.

 

[Good Luck]

Because states do not have the authority to make eligibility determinations.

Yes, they do.

The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America. He shall hold his Office during the Term of four Years, and, together with the Vice President, chosen for the same Term, be elected, as follows:

Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or Person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States, shall be appointed an Elector.

The Electors shall meet in their respective States, and vote by Ballot for two Persons, of whom one at least shall not be an Inhabitant of the same State with themselves. And they shall make a List of all the Persons voted for, and of the Number of Votes for each; which List they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the Seat of the Government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate. The President of the Senate shall, in the Presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the Certificates, and the Votes shall then be counted. The Person having the greatest Number of Votes shall be the President, if such Number be a Majority of the whole Number of Electors appointed; and if there be more than one who have such Majority, and have an equal Number of Votes, then the House of Representatives shall immediately chuse by Ballot one of them for President; and if no Person have a Majority, then from the five highest on the List the said House shall in like Manner chuse the President. But in chusing the President, the Votes shall be taken by States, the Representatives from each State having one Vote; a quorum for this Purpose shall consist of a Member or Members from two thirds of the States, and a Majority of all the States shall be necessary to a Choice. In every Case, after the Choice of the President, the Person having the greatest Number of Votes of the Electors shall be the Vice President. But if there should remain two or more who have equal Votes, the Senate shall chuse from them by Ballot the Vice President.

The Congress may determine the Time of chusing the Electors, and the Day on which they shall give their Votes; which Day shall be the same throughout the United States.

No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

So it is up to the state legislatures to choose the Electoral delegates. And it is up to those delegates to cast votes for the president.

Federal authority is limited to first, determining when the votes are to be cast so all states do so on the same date; second, confirming the results of the electoral vote, and third, selecting the winner in the case that a majority of electoral votes is not reached by any candidate.

Nowhere is the authority to determine eligibility mentioned. The only thing mentioned is that there ARE minimal requirements to be selected as president. Since the electoral college is who cast votes, then HOW THE HELL are they supposed to make sure they are voting for qualified candidates, unless SOMEONE makes sure of the qualifications?

But that authority is NOT given the federal government, anywhere.

So we get to this:

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

The power to determine eligibility is NOT delegated to the federal government, NOR is it prohibited to the states. Therefore, it is "reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." Obviously (at least to people with brains instead of donkey shit in their skulls) the people are not going to, individually, determine eligibility. In fact the courts so far have ruled that the people, individually, do not even have the authority to question eligibility. Therefore, the only one left standing to exercise the authority to determine eligibility ARE the States.