Wow... if this is true... not good for The One

Wipe your pants off SF!

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/06/16/1146329.aspx

He said he told Zebari that negotiations for a Status of Forces agreement or strategic framework agreement between the two countries should be done in the open and with Congress's authorization and that it was important that that there be strong bipartisan support for any agreement so that it can be sustained through a future administration. He argued it would make sense to hold off on such negotiations until the next administration.

"My concern is that the Bush administration--in a weakened state politically--ends up trying to rush an agreement that in some ways might be binding to the next administration, whether it was my administration or Sen. McCain's administration," Obama said. "The foreign minister agreed that the next administration should not be bound by an agreement that's currently made."

reposted for Dung...

Now you can admit you were wrong.

Do please highlight the post where I said the SOFA in July included troop withdrawals.

I do beleive your inability to read led you astray.

AGAIN... had the SOFA negotiations been delayed as requested by Obama...

WOULD their be current talks of troop withdrawals as part of the current SOFA?
 
I'm trying to debate you but you keep saying you never said things, refuse to provided evidence of the nonsense you keep spewing, refuse to admit you're wrong and on top of it all adopt definitions of common English words that are the opposite of the actual definition of those words.

You're unpossible.

Again... I stated why I used the 'sustained surge'... I didn't want to get caught in a stupid word game gotcha.... because I knew McCain had used that phrase and that if I had said escalation you would have gone off on some idiotic tangent. Little did I know you would do that anyway.

As for the evidence.... do try to pay attention, because Tiana posted it early on. I just reposted it to make it easier on you to find.

As for my stating anything resembling 'in July the SOFA talked about troop withdrawals', please follow your own advice and link me to that comment. Because I could not find any such thing.

I stated that the SOFA included talks of troop withdrawals, but as far as I can see you are the one trying to attach timing to that statement.

The fact again is this.... HAD the SOFA negotiations been delayed as Obama requested.... we would not be currently negotiating troop withdrawals.
 
reposted for Dung...

Now you can admit you were wrong.

Do please highlight the post where I said the SOFA in July included troop withdrawals.

I do beleive your inability to read led you astray.

AGAIN... had the SOFA negotiations been delayed as requested by Obama...

WOULD their be current talks of troop withdrawals as part of the current SOFA?


I'm not accepting that as proof that Obama wanted to delay all negotiation of any SOFA. You can if you want, but given the context it is clear that Obama did not want a SOFA that by-passed Congress and included permanent bases with no provision for withdrawal of troops, the state of the negotiations at that time, not that he wanted all discussions of moving forward to end.

Further, since his trip to Iraq and Maliki's quasi-endorsement of Obama's plan, he has supported the ongoing negotiations.

You're arguing as if the world stopped two months ago.
 
Oh, and since you asked for it:

actually when the troop drawdowns are a part of the status of forces agreement currently being negotiated, then YES, stating that the negotiations should be delayed until the new admin gets in IS delaying the withdrawal of troops.

As you stated, he will be able to re-negotiate LT bases etc... if/when he gets in. So WHY suggest delaying negotiations for six months?
 
I'm not accepting that as proof that Obama wanted to delay all negotiation of any SOFA. You can if you want, but given the context it is clear that Obama did not want a SOFA that by-passed Congress and included permanent bases with no provision for withdrawal of troops, the state of the negotiations at that time, not that he wanted all discussions of moving forward to end.

Further, since his trip to Iraq and Maliki's quasi-endorsement of Obama's plan, he has supported the ongoing negotiations.

You're arguing as if the world stopped two months ago.

when you read this.... how do you get any other conclusion????

"He said he told Zebari that negotiations for a Status of Forces agreement or strategic framework agreement between the two countries should be done in the open and with Congress's authorization and that it was important that that there be strong bipartisan support for any agreement so that it can be sustained through a future administration. He argued it would make sense to hold off on such negotiations until the next administration.

"My concern is that the Bush administration--in a weakened state politically--ends up trying to rush an agreement that in some ways might be binding to the next administration, whether it was my administration or Sen. McCain's administration," Obama said. "The foreign minister agreed that the next administration should not be bound by an agreement that's currently made."
 
Oh, and since you asked for it:

LMAO... did you actually read it????

I stated clearly .....


"actually when the troop drawdowns are a part of the status of forces agreement currently being negotiated, then YES, stating that the negotiations should be delayed until the new admin gets in IS delaying the withdrawal of troops.

As you stated, he will be able to re-negotiate LT bases etc... if/when he gets in. So WHY suggest delaying negotiations for six months? "

It was ongoing negotiations.... had they been stopped at the time Obama suggested, we would not be discussing withdrawals today.
 
when you read this.... how do you get any other conclusion????

"He said he told Zebari that negotiations for a Status of Forces agreement or strategic framework agreement between the two countries should be done in the open and with Congress's authorization and that it was important that that there be strong bipartisan support for any agreement so that it can be sustained through a future administration. He argued it would make sense to hold off on such negotiations until the next administration.

"My concern is that the Bush administration--in a weakened state politically--ends up trying to rush an agreement that in some ways might be binding to the next administration, whether it was my administration or Sen. McCain's administration," Obama said. "The foreign minister agreed that the next administration should not be bound by an agreement that's currently made."


Because of everything above the quoted portion and the lack of a direct quote to Obama.

FLINT, Mich. -- Obama reiterated his commitment to withdrawing U.S. troops from Iraq during a telephone conversation this morning with the country's foreign minister, he told reporters in a 10-minute press conference on the tarmac here.

The presumptive Democratic nominee told Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari that he looked forward to seeing him in Baghdad and told reporters he also wanted to visit Afghanistan, saying the situation there continued to deteriorate -- noting a prison break this past weekend. He declined to specify when such trips would take place, but said he would like to go before the election.

The men spoke about the progress U.S. troops have made in helping to reduce the violence in Iraq but Obama told Zebari troop withdrawals must go forward.

"I emphasized to him how encouraged I was by the reductions in violence in Iraq, but also insisted that it is important for us to begin the process of withdrawing U.S. troops, making clear that we have no interest in permanent bases in Iraq," the senator said. "I gave him an assurance that should we be elected, an Obama administration will make sure that we continue with the progress that's been made in Iraq, that we won't act precipitously, but that we will move to end U.S. combat forces in Iraq in a manner that's as careful as we were careless getting in."

The need to withdraw is twofold, Obama said. Reprising an argument he has been making for months, he cited the need to encourage the Iraqi government to make the political accommodations on matters like oil revenues and provincial elections, which the surge was supposed to help happen. He argued that the progress made in the South and in Sadr City showed the need not for a longer commitment but a shorter one, because they indicate a greater capacity on the part of Iraqis to deal effectively with their security. Obama said the second reason was the $10- to-12 billion being spent each month in the country, a statistic he often cites when discussing the need to withdraw.

In response to a question about how much flexibility there would be to withdrawal plans, Obama said he still believed U.S. forces could be out of the country within about 16 months and that "I've also consistently said that I will consult with military commanders on the ground and that we will always be open to the possibility of tactical adjustments. The important thing is to send a clear signal to the Iraqi people and most importantly to the Iraqi leadership that the U.S. occupation in Iraq is finite, it is gonna be coming to a foreseeable end."

He said he told Zebari that negotiations for a Status of Forces agreement or strategic framework agreement between the two countries should be done in the open and with Congress's authorization and that it was important that that there be strong bipartisan support for any agreement so that it can be sustained through a future administration. He argued it would make sense to hold off on such negotiations until the next administration.

"My concern is that the Bush administration--in a weakened state politically--ends up trying to rush an agreement that in some ways might be binding to the next administration, whether it was my administration or Sen. McCain's administration," Obama said. "The foreign minister agreed that the next administration should not be bound by an agreement that's currently made."
 
Wow like Reagan and the hostages only a billion times worse. If this can be confirmed, I guess I'll stay home on election day. No way I'm voting for McCain and that stupid ass cunt and no way I'd vote for Obama if he did this.


WTB Wesley Clark
 
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