Zhu Xi

Matt Dillon said:
We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is, seen and unseen. We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, of one Being with the Father; through him all things were made. For us and for our salvation he came down from heaven, was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the virgin Mary and became truly human. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered death and was buried. On the third day he rose again in accordance with the scriptures; he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end. We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son,* who with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified, who has spoken through the prophets. We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic church. We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.
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I can only say that you show no sign of this whatever. What you believe seems to be simple fascism, honestly.
 
Iolo/Penderyn said:
I can only say that you show no sign of this whatever. What you believe seems to be simple fascism, honestly.
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You don't even know what fascism is, it's just something you heard somebody called. Talk about unfounded assertions. :palm:

Define fascism, you 'tard.
 
Cypress said:
I pretty much dig this Song Dynasty Neo-Confucian philosopher:



When you engage your mind in an investigation of things, knowledge is extended.

When knowledge is extended, your thinking becomes clear.

When your thinking becomes clear, you can rectify yourself; you can cultivate your own moral qualities.

When your moral qualities are cultivated, you will be able to properly order your family.

When your family is properly ordered, you will be able to govern your state well.

When you govern your state well, you will be able to bring order to the world.
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Is the word "order" in this a correct translation? I do not like its connotation in English.
 
Matt Dillon said:
We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is, seen and unseen. We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, of one Being with the Father; through him all things were made. For us and for our salvation he came down from heaven, was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the virgin Mary and became truly human. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered death and was buried. On the third day he rose again in accordance with the scriptures; he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end. We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son,* who with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified, who has spoken through the prophets. We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic church. We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.
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So you were also raised as a Lutheran. Do you still think of yourself as Christian?
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
Is the word "order" in this a correct translation? I do not like its connotation in English.
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Order in a Confucian context just means to have good and proper relationships.

That meaning is obviously fluid, and means something different in the year 2021 than it did in 1144. There was more heirarchy in relationships a thousand years ago

To me, once one strips away anachronistic thinking, the overall philosophy is as valid today as it was a thousand years ago
 
Cypress said:
Order in a Confucian context just means to have good and proper relationships.

That meaning is obviously fluid, and means something different in the year 2021 than it did in 1144. There was more heirarchy in relationships a thousand years ago

To me, once one strips away anachronistic thinking, the overall philosophy is as valid today as it was a thousand years ago
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So to sum up, he is basically saying to continue to learn, acquire knowledge and understanding, so that you can create serenity from chaos?
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
It's reminiscent of Jesus's admonition to remove the log from your own eye before you can see clearly to remove the speck from someone else's eye.
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The ancient wisdom from the Near East, Greece, India, and East Asia is still worth thinking about today.

By learning history, it helped me better understand where these philosophers were coming from. Jesus was a Jewish apocalypticist who thought the kingdom of heaven was nearly upon us, and we better drop our petty material concerns and cultivate our morality to get right with God.

Confucianism was born in the chaos of China's Warring States period, and the Confucian scholar's obsession with creating a well ordered society, was a reflection of their desire to prevent backsliding into chaos and war.
 
Cypress said:
The ancient wisdom from the Near East, Greece, India, and East Asia is still worth thinking about today.

By learning history, it helped me better understand where these philosophers were coming from. Jesus was a Jewish apocalypticist who thought the kingdom of heaven was nearly upon us, and we better drop our petty material concerns and cultivate our morality to get right with God.

Confucianism was born in the chaos of China's Warring States period, and the Confucian scholar's obsession with creating a well ordered society, was a reflection of their desire to prevent backsliding into chaos and war.
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Wise men learn from, and borrow from, the past wisdom of other wise men. Our Founders borrowed from the Haudenosaunee Confederacy (Iroquois League of Nations) when crafting the documents that later became our Constitution.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
Wise men learn from, and borrow from, the past wisdom of other wise men. Our Founders borrowed from the Haudenosaunee Confederacy (Iroquois League of Nations) when crafting the documents that later became our Constitution.
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This is why I was never a fan of George Dumbya's education law which emphasized testing for arithmetic and writing, nor the obsession with turning our universities onto STEM degree factories.

There is so much wisdom to be acquired from an investigation of the liberal arts and humanities, which simply cannot be acquired by learning differential equations, linear algebra, or software coding.
 
Cypress said:
I pretty much dig this Song Dynasty Neo-Confucian philosopher:



When you engage your mind in an investigation of things, knowledge is extended.

When knowledge is extended, your thinking becomes clear.

When your thinking becomes clear, you can rectify yourself; you can cultivate your own moral qualities.

When your moral qualities are cultivated, you will be able to properly order your family.

When your family is properly ordered, you will be able to govern your state well.

When you govern your state well, you will be able to bring order to the world.
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Note the translation to the verb can instead of will: "you can rectify yourself; you can cultivate your own moral qualities". Today, China has a social credit system that forces conformity on 96% of the population. Only 4% of the people have the luxury to cultivate their own moral qualities. Eastern scholars show how and why the Chinese people have been programmed like robots. Vaccine mandates prove the US also has its own social credit system of obedience.

Government (empire) intentionally creates chaos to prevent clear thinking. No one knows what to believe. Old philosophers told us about mass psychosis so with only 4% of us holding on to reality, there will never be order to the world.
 
goat said:
Note the translation to the verb can instead of will: "you can rectify yourself; you can cultivate your own moral qualities". Today, China has a social credit system that forces conformity on 96% of the population. Only 4% of the people have the luxury to cultivate their own moral qualities. Eastern scholars show how and why the Chinese people have been programmed like robots. Vaccine mandates prove the US also has its own social credit system of obedience.

Government (empire) intentionally creates chaos to prevent clear thinking. No one knows what to believe. Old philosophers told us about mass psychosis so with only 4% of us holding on to reality, there will never be order to the world.
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It is a misread of Confucian culture and Eastern philosophy generally to assume it promotes passive, conformist robots.

In the past 3,000 years, and up to and including the 20th century, China has been ground zero for countless revolutions, uprisings, revolts, and intellectual, cultural, and religious ferment.

Heirarchy and tradition are valued in Confucian culture.

But so is justice, legitimacy, and righteousness.
 
Matt Dillon said:
You don't even know what fascism is, it's just something you heard somebody called. Talk about unfounded assertions. :palm:

Define fascism, you 'tard.
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Fascism is the crisis form of capitalism, called in when the system is threatened. I spent a good deal of time (and got a broken nose) fighting the National Front, and my father was on a Hitler death list, incidentally. Trumpism is a very derivative form of fascism, sharing its illiterate populism and its racism without there being any real threat to the system itself - just to its natural believers.
 
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Cypress said:
It is a misread of Confucian culture and Eastern philosophy generally to assume it promotes passive, conformist robots.

In the past 3,000 years, and up to and including the 20th century, China has been ground zero for countless revolutions, uprisings, revolts, and intellectual, cultural, and religious ferment.

Heirarchy and tradition are valued in Confucian culture.

But so is justice, legitimacy, and righteousness.
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Robots. You want to see the American version?

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The western caricature of robotic, obedient Chinese is at odds with core Confucian teachings.

While Confucian culture expects a type of deference to parents and leaders, at it's core Confucianism promotes the doctrine of remonstrance. In the ideal Confucian model, one is expected to speak truth to power, and to correct a leader who is unjust and acting against the interests of harmony and against the Dao.
 
Cypress said:
I pretty much dig this Song Dynasty Neo-Confucian philosopher:



When you engage your mind in an investigation of things, knowledge is extended.

When knowledge is extended, your thinking becomes clear.

When your thinking becomes clear, you can rectify yourself; you can cultivate your own moral qualities.

When your moral qualities are cultivated, you will be able to properly order your family.

When your family is properly ordered, you will be able to govern your state well.

When you govern your state well, you will be able to bring order to the world.
Click to expand...

But when you're constipated, all of that goes out the window.
[Everybody forgets the last sentence, Cypress.]
 
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