A car such as the Tesla may not be appropriate for every possible scenario. No one claims it is the end all be all.
Tesla Model S launched! Finally we see what the future of electric cars can be.
- Thread starter Canceled.2014.1
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A car such as the Tesla may not be appropriate for every possible scenario. No one claims it is the end all be all.
Canceled.2014.1
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From what I have read, it would probably manage ok. Or at least as well as a gasoline powered vehicle. When you are expecting temps to drop to 35 below, you take steps to insure the car runs.
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Not according to some...
“Although Tesla say it will do 200 miles we have worked out that on our track it will run out after just 55 miles and if it does run out, it is not a quick job to charge it up again,” Clarkson said in commentary.
http://www.wired.com/autopia/2012/02/tesla-vs-top-gear/
Then there's this:
A Tesla Roadster that is simply parked without being plugged in will eventually become a "brick".
The parasitic load from the car's always-on subsystems continually drains the battery and if the battery's charge is ever totally depleted, it is essentially destroyed.
Complete discharge can happen even when the car is plugged in if it isn't receiving sufficient current to charge, which can be caused by something as simple as using an extension cord.
After battery death, the car is completely inoperable.
At least in the case of the Tesla Roadster, it's not even possible to enable tow mode, meaning the wheels will not turn and the vehicle cannot be pushed nor transported to a repair facility by traditional means.
The amount of time it takes an unplugged Tesla to die varies. Tesla's Roadster Owners Manual [Full Zipped PDF] states that the battery should take approximately 11 weeks of inactivity to completely discharge [Page 5-2, Column 3: PDF].
However, that is from a full 100% charge.
If the car has been driven first, say to be parked at an airport for a long trip, that time can be substantially reduced.
If the car is driven to nearly its maximum range and then left unplugged, it could potentially "brick" in about one week.
Many other scenarios are possible: for example, the car becomes unplugged by accident, or is unwittingly plugged into an extension cord that is defective or too long.
When a Tesla battery does reach total discharge, it cannot be recovered and must be entirely replaced.
Unlike a normal car battery, the best-case replacement cost of the Tesla battery is currently at least $32,000, not including labor and taxes that can add thousands more to the cost.
http://jalopnik.com/5887265/tesla-motors-devastating-design-problem
Why?
LEGAL NOTICE: This programme is now the subject of legal proceedings for defamation and malicious falsehood brought by Tesla Motors Ltd and Tesla Motors Inc against the BBC.
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You do understand that the Clarity runs on hydrogen, not gasoline?
The fuel cell produces electricity that can be used as a clean alternative to gasoline. The fuel cell stack in the FCX Clarity FCEV converts hydrogen (H[SUB]2[/SUB]) and oxygen (O[SUB]2[/SUB]) from the air into electricity.
http://automobiles.honda.com/fcx-clarity/about-fuel-cells.aspx
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Tesla and the company's lawyers are nothing if not determined.
After a judge smacked down the electric vehicle manufacturer's libel suit against the BBC and Top Gear for comments made about the range of the Tesla Roadster, the automaker rallied with a second, amended
lawsuit.
It didn't take long for the the same judge to nix the new case, too, saying the amendment was "not capable of being defamatory at all, or, if it is, it is not capable of being a sufficiently serious defamatory meaning to constitute a real and substantial tort."
That sound? It's the smack of the judicial backhand.
The judge went on to say drivers know a manufacturer's claim about range is dependent on driving conditions and habits.
The dustup, as you may recall, began when Top Gear put the Tesla Roadster through its paces on the show's test track.
While Jeremy Clarkson lauded the car's acceleration, the segment claimed the vehicle ran out of juice after just 55 miles of abuse.
That figure is far south of the 200-mile range Tesla claims for the vehicle.
http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html#nabble-td4420618
After a judge smacked down the electric vehicle manufacturer's libel suit against the BBC and Top Gear for comments made about the range of the Tesla Roadster, the automaker rallied with a second, amended
lawsuit.
It didn't take long for the the same judge to nix the new case, too, saying the amendment was "not capable of being defamatory at all, or, if it is, it is not capable of being a sufficiently serious defamatory meaning to constitute a real and substantial tort."
That sound? It's the smack of the judicial backhand.
The judge went on to say drivers know a manufacturer's claim about range is dependent on driving conditions and habits.
The dustup, as you may recall, began when Top Gear put the Tesla Roadster through its paces on the show's test track.
While Jeremy Clarkson lauded the car's acceleration, the segment claimed the vehicle ran out of juice after just 55 miles of abuse.
That figure is far south of the 200-mile range Tesla claims for the vehicle.
http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html#nabble-td4420618
Canceled.2014.1
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Ok, so we have established that the Tesla Model S, as things stand right now, is not great for long family vacations and you can't leave it in extended parking at the airport.
Neither seems like an issue to me. I doubt I have ever had my primary vehicle sit still for more than 48 hours. With the money I save based on the difference between the cost of electricity and the cost of gas, I'll fly to my vacation destination and rent a car. I'm sure one of my kids would take me to the airport for teh opportunity to drive the Tesla for a week or so.
OH BOY! drive 4 hours wait half an hour. Doubly awesome. Must be the greatest car ever. How many times can the batteries be charged before they lose efficiency? Have you ever tried using battery powered tools. I assure you the batteries do not deliver good power for the last half of the battery life. I can't imagine anyone but an idiot trusting that the car will drive the same when the battery is fully charged and when it nears the end of the cycle. LOL we'll see you on the road, buddy. You'll be the guy looking for a tow truck so you'll be easy to spot
You do understand the fuel cell requires the input of hydrogen from a tank right? Only the oxygen comes from "air".
The Honda-developed Vertical Flow (V Flow) fuel cell stack is nothing short of revolutionary. The advanced layout enables a vertical flow of hydrogen and oxygen from the air through a more efficient package.
The compact design also allows better distribution of the powertrain components for a sleek cabin-forward look that was not possible in earlier models.
How It Works
A hydrogen fuel cell produces electricity for the vehicle. The fuel cell combines hydrogen, which is stored in a fuel tank onboard the vehicle, with oxygen from the air to make electricity. The electricity then powers the electric motor, which in turn drives the front wheels. Water vapor and heat are the only byproducts.
A fuel cell is made up of a thin membrane wedged between two electrode layers in between two separators. Several hundred layers of these cells are connected in series.
1. Hydrogen fuel is fed into the anode of the fuel cell. Helped by a catalyst, hydrogen molecules are split into electrons and protons.
2. Electrons are channeled through a circuit to produce electricity.
3. Protons pass through the polymer electrolyte membrane.
4. Oxygen (from the air) enters the cathode and combines with the electrons and protons to form water.
5. Water vapor and heat are released as byproducts of this reaction.
Advances in fuel cell vehicle design accelerated rapidly once we began to develop our Honda fuel cell stack, turning conventional thinking literally on its ear. Read more about the Honda fuel cell evolution.
How do you think hydrogen is produced?
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A Tesla doesn't have to stand idle to be "bricked", and the company is lying about the issue.
Tesla is now facing at least five problems, all of which are of their own making: [h=4]1. Tesla is deceiving themselves, or us.[/h] Tesla calls “bricking” an “unfounded rumor”.
Yet here is a written letter from Tesla’s VP of Worldwide Service J. Joost de Vries where he states for a fact that a car had “complete discharge (and therefore complete failure) of your battery pack” and offers to “replace the complete battery pack at a price of around $40,000.”
So Tesla thinks bricking is an unfounded rumor, but one that definitely happens.
How does that make any sense? I don’t know and I’m not sure they do either.
[h=4]2. Tesla won’t disclose even basic information.[/h] Why not say how many bricked Roadsters there’ve been?
Why not just disclose this so that customers, investors, partners, and other stakeholders can have peace of mind on the matter — “Only seven bricks? Well, that was just 0.3% of the cars after all, and they’ve made a lot of strides on the matter since then.”
The logical guess is either they’re being paranoid or the number is bigger than we think.
For example, a Tesla owner told me about another brick in a barn in Wyoming (despite having the automatic warning system Tesla mentioned), more details cropped up about the “Japan” brick (a used car buyer who ergo never got Tesla’s verbal warnings nor signed a disclosure form), and, intriguingly, former Napster Chairman & CEO John Fanning commented on a TechCrunch post saying that he too was aware of another Tesla Roadster brick:
Fanning wouldn’t confirm who he was talking about, but there’s definitely one person he knows who has a Forbes List friend who owned a Tesla Roadster.
[h=4]3. Tesla tracks their customers’ location.[/h] As mentioned in my original article, Tesla’s Service Manager stated that Tesla had activated a customer’s GPS in hopes of locating the customer’s vehicle before it bricked.
That might be acceptable — except the service manager also stated Tesla doesn’t tell customers about this tracking.
How is that acceptable?
Tesla logs contain GPS locations of a vehicle’s charging locations in many circumstances. Tesla ought to publicize its policies on what happens with this data, as there seems to be some confusion.
[h=4]4. Tesla leaks their own customers’ private information.[/h] Tesla inexplicably leaked the name of one of my sources – their own customer – and the email he sent Tesla CEO Elon Musk.
The blogger they leaked it to then tried to portray my article as nothing more than a “shakedown” for warranty money, which Tesla in turn promoted on its Twitter feed:
This is how Tesla treats its customer’s privacy?
If you complain about Tesla, they feel entitled to leak your name and impugn your motives?
It’s hard to imagine any other $3.5 billion company so backhandedly smearing an individual customer, regardless of what that customer had said or done.
[h=4]5. Tesla expects more of their customers than they do of their CEO.[/h] Ah, “Plug It In”.
In other words, “RTFM”. Why in the world would anyone ever leave their car with less than 10% charge?
Or ever use an extension cord? After all, this form they’ve had buyers sign so explicitly says not to do either of those. Every owner should know better than that, according to their post.
Well, watch as Tesla CEO Elon Musk tells Jay Leno that the Tesla Roadster “doesn’t actually care about the state of charge”, “you can leave it at 5%”, and if you ever want to plug it in, “you just need an extension cord” — exactly the kind of behavior Tesla would later say is unwarrantied “neglect”.
Elon’s tips for voiding your warranty start just on the 3 minute mark.
When I look over all these self-inflicted problems, I’m left with the feeling that Tesla simply isn’t the mature, open, and honest company that ought to be leading the electric vehicle charge.
http://theunderstatement.com/post/18456614822/five-problems-for-tesla-motors
Canceled.2014.1
New member
Battery powered tools can be dependable and powerful. Last year my company started using battery powered drills to drill utility poles for mounting hardware to hold lines. They work all day and have all the torque needed. Battery technology has come a long way.
I'll see you on the road. While your in line at the pumps, I'll be cruising on by.
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So you don't know the difference between "your" and "you're", but we're supposed to think you're credible?
FOX News Reports:Tesla Motors downplays threat of 'brick' problem
http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2012/02/22/tesla-motors-downplays-threat-brick-problem/
Do you realize that with any vehicle there is a balance between distance driven and performance? I could take your mother's Escort and make it run out of gas much sooner than when your mom drives it, just by constantly racing the engine and accelerating heavily. That is the case with all vehicles, gas or electric. Try again.
Canceled.2014.1
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Attacking typos? Is that what you have come down to? Sad. If this were a common mistake of mine you might have a point. Its not, so you don't.
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OK.
Tesla Motors CEO Elon Musk seems to have it all… The one thing he doesn’t have, by his own admission, is money.
“About four months ago, I ran out of cash,” he wrote in a court filing dated Feb. 23.
That’s a problem not just for him but for Tesla, where he is the lead investor and chief product architect, as well as CEO.
Musk’s willingness to funnel his own cash into Tesla has for years sustained the faith of fellow investors and reassured would-be car buyers in 2008 when the company’s finances were in perilous shape.
The company has a $465 million loan from the Department of Energy, but it’s been heavily dependent on Musk, as well. “About four months ago, I ran out of cash,” he wrote in a court filing dated Feb. 23.
That’s a problem not just for him but for Tesla, where he is the lead investor and chief product architect, as well as CEO.
Musk’s willingness to funnel his own cash into Tesla has for years sustained the faith of fellow investors and reassured would-be car buyers in 2008 when the company’s finances were in perilous shape.
However, it’s recently started kicking more compensation his way, reimbursing his private jet flights and issuing him 6.7 million stock options as compensation.
Musk is in the middle of an ugly divorce, too, with his wife charging him with “breach of fiduciary duty” (golddiggers take note, you can marry a risky venture capitalist and still act surprised if at some point he can’t scrape enough cash together for a McDonald’s Value Meal) as grounds for tearing up the pre-nup and going after his assets.
http://lolfed.com/2010/06/03/tesla-electric-cars-scandal-and-bailouts-oh-my/
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You seem excited. Maybe your emotional state caused you to forget basic grammar.
Care to comment on Tesla's documented issues?
A Tesla doesn't have to stand idle to be "bricked", and the company is lying about the issue.
Tesla is now facing at least five problems, all of which are of their own making: 1. Tesla is deceiving themselves, or us.
Tesla calls “bricking” an “unfounded rumor”.
Yet here is a written letter from Tesla’s VP of Worldwide Service J. Joost de Vries where he states for a fact that a car had “complete discharge (and therefore complete failure) of your battery pack” and offers to “replace the complete battery pack at a price of around $40,000.”
So Tesla thinks bricking is an unfounded rumor, but one that definitely happens.
How does that make any sense? I don’t know and I’m not sure they do either.
2. Tesla won’t disclose even basic information.
Why not say how many bricked Roadsters there’ve been?
Why not just disclose this so that customers, investors, partners, and other stakeholders can have peace of mind on the matter — “Only seven bricks? Well, that was just 0.3% of the cars after all, and they’ve made a lot of strides on the matter since then.”
The logical guess is either they’re being paranoid or the number is bigger than we think.
For example, a Tesla owner told me about another brick in a barn in Wyoming (despite having the automatic warning system Tesla mentioned), more details cropped up about the “Japan” brick (a used car buyer who ergo never got Tesla’s verbal warnings nor signed a disclosure form), and, intriguingly, former Napster Chairman & CEO John Fanning commented on a TechCrunch post saying that he too was aware of another Tesla Roadster brick:
Fanning wouldn’t confirm who he was talking about, but there’s definitely one person he knows who has a Forbes List friend who owned a Tesla Roadster.
3. Tesla tracks their customers’ location.
As mentioned in my original article, Tesla’s Service Manager stated that Tesla had activated a customer’s GPS in hopes of locating the customer’s vehicle before it bricked.
That might be acceptable — except the service manager also stated Tesla doesn’t tell customers about this tracking.
How is that acceptable?
Tesla logs contain GPS locations of a vehicle’s charging locations in many circumstances. Tesla ought to publicize its policies on what happens with this data, as there seems to be some confusion.
4. Tesla leaks their own customers’ private information.
Tesla inexplicably leaked the name of one of my sources – their own customer – and the email he sent Tesla CEO Elon Musk.
The blogger they leaked it to then tried to portray my article as nothing more than a “shakedown” for warranty money, which Tesla in turn promoted on its Twitter feed:
This is how Tesla treats its customer’s privacy?
If you complain about Tesla, they feel entitled to leak your name and impugn your motives?
It’s hard to imagine any other $3.5 billion company so backhandedly smearing an individual customer, regardless of what that customer had said or done.
5. Tesla expects more of their customers than they do of their CEO.
Ah, “Plug It In”.
In other words, “RTFM”. Why in the world would anyone ever leave their car with less than 10% charge?
Or ever use an extension cord? After all, this form they’ve had buyers sign so explicitly says not to do either of those. Every owner should know better than that, according to their post.
Well, watch as Tesla CEO Elon Musk tells Jay Leno that the Tesla Roadster “doesn’t actually care about the state of charge”, “you can leave it at 5%”, and if you ever want to plug it in, “you just need an extension cord” — exactly the kind of behavior Tesla would later say is unwarrantied “neglect”.
Elon’s tips for voiding your warranty start just on the 3 minute mark.
When I look over all these self-inflicted problems, I’m left with the feeling that Tesla simply isn’t the mature, open, and honest company that ought to be leading the electric vehicle charge.
http://theunderstatement.com/post/18456614822/five-problems-for-tesla-motors
Don't believe recent claims made by a blogger that non-functioning batteries in the Tesla Roadster cause the electric cars to be bricked, says IDC analyst Sam Jaffe. 'Here's the primary fact that the blogger in question doesn't understand: the Tesla battery pack is not a battery,' says Jaffe. 'It's a collection of more than 8,000 individual batteries. Each of those cells is independently managed. So there's only two ways for the entire battery pack to fail. The first is if all 8,000 cells individually fail (highly unlikely except in the case of something catastrophic like a fire). The second failure mechanism is if the battery management system tells the pack to shut down because it has detected a dangerous situation, such as an extremely low depth of discharge. If that's the case, all that needs to be done is to tow the vehicle to a charger, recharge the batteries and then reboot the battery management system. This is the most likely explanation for the five 'bricks' that the blogger claims to have heard about.'"100 of 362 comments loaded twitter facebook
http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/...tesla-cars-arent-bricked-by-failing-batteries