Raise The Minimum Wage!

christiefan915 said:
Dems are bringing up something they see as a real-life problem. Repubs don't give a hoot about adequate wages so they bring up Obama's teeth.
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Are higher wages for those who have work worth it for the jobs lost that it will cost?
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And IMO this is the argument in a nut shell. Nobody's given hard proof that jobs will be lost if the minimum wage gets bumped a dollar or so. Jobs were lost during the 19 years there was only one increase in the minimum wage, but that gets completely ignored in these debates.
 
christiefan915 said:
And IMO this is the argument in a nut shell. Nobody's given hard proof that jobs will be lost if the minimum wage gets bumped a dollar or so. Jobs were lost during the 19 years there was only one increase in the minimum wage, but that gets completely ignored in these debates.
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Increased costs such as wages will cause employers to ship jobs overseas if that becomes a cheaper option or reduce employees. We often think of these billion corporations but most businesses in the U.S. are small companies that aren't making multi-million dollar profits. Forced costs increases hit their bottom line hard.

It's one thing if a company is doing well and decides to reward employees with higher pay. It's another if a company is struggling and then forced to increase pay.

Intuitively to me if raising the minimum wage wouldn't hurt employment why wouldn't we have raised to $10, $15 or $20 far sooner? Again, I say this not trying to be a*hole or lacking compassion I'm just speaking what economic reality is.

One area we can judge is youth unemployment.
 
This thread out of nowhere, is more Occutard BS. The reason no one wants to talk actual numbers is because when the Occutards did put up demands with numbers in them, in between raping, stealing, and shitting on peoples front porches, they were laughed out of the universe...Here they are in case anyone forgot....

Demand one: Restoration of the living wage. This demand can only be met by ending "Freetrade" by re-imposing trade tariffs on all imported goods entering the American market to level the playing field for domestic family farming and domestic manufacturing as most nations that are dumping cheap products onto the American market have radical wage and environmental regulation advantages. Another policy that must be instituted is raise the minimum wage to twenty dollars an hr.

Demand two: Institute a universal single payer healthcare system. To do this all private insurers must be banned from the healthcare market as their only effect on the health of patients is to take money away from doctors, nurses and hospitals preventing them from doing their jobs and hand that money to wall st. investors.

Demand three: Guaranteed living wage income regardless of employment.

Demand four: Free college education.

Demand five: Begin a fast track process to bring the fossil fuel economy to an end while at the same bringing the alternative energy economy up to energy demand.

Demand six: One trillion dollars in infrastructure (Water, Sewer, Rail, Roads and Bridges and Electrical Grid) spending now.

Demand seven: One trillion dollars in ecological restoration planting forests, reestablishing wetlands and the natural flow of river systems and decommissioning of all of America's nuclear power plants.

Demand eight: Racial and gender equal rights amendment.

Demand nine: Open borders migration. anyone can travel anywhere to work and live.

Demand ten: Bring American elections up to international standards of a paper ballot precinct counted and recounted in front of an independent and party observers system.

Demand eleven: Immediate across the board debt forgiveness for all. Debt forgiveness of sovereign debt, commercial loans, home mortgages, home equity loans, credit card debt, student loans and personal loans now! All debt must be stricken from the "Books." World Bank Loans to all Nations, Bank to Bank Debt and all Bonds and Margin Call Debt in the stock market including all Derivatives or Credit Default Swaps, all 65 trillion dollars of them must also be stricken from the "Books." And I don't mean debt that is in default, I mean all debt on the entire planet period.

Demand twelve: Outlaw all credit reporting agencies.

Demand thirteen: Allow all workers to sign a ballot at any time during a union organizing campaign or at any time that represents their yeah or nay to having a union represent them in collective bargaining or to form a union.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-demands-for-occupy-wall-st-moveme/
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Now, come on people...Is there anyone in this day and age that really thinks that a job flipping burgers for the local Mickey D's is, or should be worth $20 an hour?
 
j-mac said:
This thread out of nowhere, is more Occutard BS. The reason no one wants to talk actual numbers is because when the Occutards did put up demands with numbers in them, in between raping, stealing, and shitting on peoples front porches, they were laughed out of the universe...Here they are in case anyone forgot....



Now, come on people...Is there anyone in this day and age that really thinks that a job flipping burgers for the local Mickey D's is, or should be worth $20 an hour?
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Did anyone here say anything about $20/hour for minimum wage, retard? Talk about disingenuous.
 
cawacko said:
Increased costs such as wages will cause employers to ship jobs overseas if that becomes a cheaper option or reduce employees. We often think of these billion corporations but most businesses in the U.S. are small companies that aren't making multi-million dollar profits. Forced costs increases hit their bottom line hard.

It's one thing if a company is doing well and decides to reward employees with higher pay. It's another if a company is struggling and then forced to increase pay.

Intuitively to me if raising the minimum wage wouldn't hurt employment why wouldn't we have raised to $10, $15 or $20 far sooner? Again, I say this not trying to be a*hole or lacking compassion I'm just speaking what economic reality is.

One area we can judge is youth unemployment.
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I see a lot of "Joe the Plumber" thinking with the anti-raise crowd. Joe thought under Obama his taxes would go way up but the actual number came out to $750 a year, while his income would increase by the thousands.

If you have five employees and the minimum gets raised to $7.65, for instance, it works out to $20/day ($4/person) for a 40-hour week. Now look at those 19 years I talked about previously. 1981-1990, min. was $3.35 yet the COLA went up 48%. Same thing for the years 1997-2007. The worker was getting a lot less bang for his buck at the end of these long spells. A few additional dollars in the paycheck means a lot to those who earn a pittance.

Companies and workers are mutually dependent yet the ones with the money always have the power.

My questions to conservatives are: do you think minimum wage should be eliminated, and if not, what amount should it be?
 
Rune said:
Did anyone here say anything about $20/hour for minimum wage, retard? Talk about disingenuous.
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They'd pee themselves over a fifty-cent increase but since it makes them look Scroogier than hell, they'll trot out $20/hour, as if that would ever happen.
 
Rune said:
Did anyone here say anything about $20/hour for minimum wage, retard? Talk about disingenuous.
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Allow me to refresh your memory for you. The OP was no commentary, but rather just this:

milk-wages.jpg

It clearly uses Occutard language in it, so I thought it would be useful since you are totally dodging a simple question, to list their published demands which in its first demand places a $20 per hr. figure on the "living wage" question.

Are you up to speed now?
 
christiefan915 said:
They'd pee themselves over a fifty-cent increase but since it makes them look Scroogier than hell, they'll trot out $20/hour, as if that would ever happen.
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I believe that a minimum wage precipitates a race to the bottom, rather than a true free market where the wage for a particular job is stagnant due to employers not having to compete for the best and brightest through significant wage consideration, but rather setting their wage at what is mandated through governmental over reach.
 
j-mac said:
I believe that a minimum wage precipitates a race to the bottom, rather than a true free market where the wage for a particular job is stagnant due to employers not having to compete for the best and brightest through significant wage consideration, but rather setting their wage at what is mandated through governmental over reach.
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Does this mean you think minimum wage laws should be repealed?
 
christiefan915 said:
I see a lot of "Joe the Plumber" thinking with the anti-raise crowd. Joe thought under Obama his taxes would go way up but the actual number came out to $750 a year, while his income would increase by the thousands.

If you have five employees and the minimum gets raised to $7.65, for instance, it works out to $20/day ($4/person) for a 40-hour week. Now look at those 19 years I talked about previously. 1981-1990, min. was $3.35 yet the COLA went up 48%. Same thing for the years 1997-2007. The worker was getting a lot less bang for his buck at the end of these long spells. A few additional dollars in the paycheck means a lot to those who earn a pittance.

Companies and workers are mutually dependent yet the ones with the money always have the power.

My questions to conservatives are: do you think minimum wage should be eliminated, and if not, what amount should it be?
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It's not about Joe the Plumber or being conservative. I asked my old man who has a PhD in economics and used to teach it. Doesn't mean he's right about everything but it's an area he's very knowledgable about. He also voted for Obama and lives in San Francisco so he's not a right-wing Southerner. I asked his opinion and first response was it will cost jobs just as I posted previously. It's economics.
 
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christiefan915 said:
They'd pee themselves over a fifty-cent increase but since it makes them look Scroogier than hell, they'll trot out $20/hour, as if that would ever happen.
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I asked the question from a discussion perspective. I mean $10, $15 or $20 an hour would really boost a workers spending potential. The question doesn't have to do with being liberal or conservative and isn't a gotcha question. It was simply a question for discussion.
 
christiefan915 said:
Does this mean you think minimum wage laws should be repealed?
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I am not sure that such a construct can be just wiped out without doing as much, if not more damage than the Union backed wet dream of ever increasing minimums.

In today's politics with both sides pandering to the 50% of recipient class voter out there, created and sustained through total extra constitutional over reach, it is increasingly turning into what Ben Franklin stated in this country's inception....“When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.”

It is not the job of government in our Republic to redistribute wealth in any fashion.
 
j-mac said:
We all have to start somewhere. Minimum wage jobs were never meant to be family support type of jobs. They usually were jobs for teens, and new comers to the work force to get them used to the fundamentals of working. My suggestion to those unhappy with their current jobs, are to further their skills, or education so that they can move out of minimum wage.
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44% of Minimum wage workers today have attended or graduated from college.
 
BAN HAMMER said:
So, raising the minimum wage will somehow NOT raise the price of milk? Wow, when did that happen?
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It depends on how many farmers are paid the minimum wage. Also, there are many other factors involved that would overwhelm any effect a small increase in the minimum wage would have, even assuming the entire milk-producing labor force were paid at minimum wage.
 
j-mac said:
No, but it won't help to raise the cost of doing business in these times either. Business already has huge uncertainty due to the recent SCOTUS decision on health care, and the regulations coming down the pike....
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It largely wouldn't effect business, because their competition would be playing under the same rules. When right-wingers look at this, they seem to look at it as if they are only considering the negative effects that raising a companies labor costs would have, given current conditions. However, raising labor costs for everyone changes the conditions. It's like we're considering changing the rules for a game, and you're treating it as if we're talking about specifically applying some handicap to you rather than, for instance, raising the amount of points anyone needs to win the game.
 
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Uh huh, sure you will. That's why you deleted your post.

Don't post something you don't want a mod to see.
 
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