Should we increase visas for tech workers?

I am saying that several companies have tried to hire american workers to avoid the hassles. But have been unable to find workers willing to do the work, to say nothing of being able to do the work nearly as well as the hispanic workers.
You mean hire American workers for minimum wage. The reason these companies can't hold onto American workers is not that Americans won't do the work. They won't do it for crap wages when they have better employment options elsewhere. Housekeepers in the Hotel industry is a perfect example. It's tough ball busting work that pays barely more than minimum wage. My wife is an executive housekeeper at a 200 room hotel. $10/hour is the magic number for them. When they pay $10/hour they attract and keep American workers. When they pay less than that they lose the American workers and become depended on immigrant laborers. Typically speaking they start at $8/hr.....$0.50/hour more than minimum wage and no medical or retirement benefits. So their housekeepers are overwhelminlgy latinas.
 
We? Do you own a company that can sponsor someone? I am not interested in helping assholes abuse immigrants.

I am an american citizen, with a vested interest in this country. I have the power to help create law and policy.

We should do what benefits us, whatever that may be.

Ultimately I look at everything as a cost benefit analysis. And the immigrants that come here are free to do one on their own. If whatever policies we put in place are so terrible, then they don't have to come here. If they do come here, then they've decided it would be an overall net positive, so no harm no foul.
 
I am an american citizen, with a vested interest in this country. I have the power to help create law and policy.

We should do what benefits us, whatever that may be.

Ultimately I look at everything as a cost benefit analysis. And the immigrants that come here are free to do one on their own. If whatever policies we put in place are so terrible, then they don't have to come here. If they do come here, then they've decided it would be an overall net positive, so no harm no foul.
That sort of reasoning is a moral slippery slope. You can't put a "cost" on everything. For example, diversity has always played a critical role in the American cultural, social and economic dynamic. It prevents us from stagnating and forces us to accept new ideas. Please, place a cost or a price on that. I can give other examples too. Don't get me wrong, there is a time and a place for cost benefit analysis but it has its limits.
 
No freaking shit it does. When I was working at OSU as a research assistant in the materials engineering depertment when several of the American students graduated in that department they we're offered entry level positions at around $60,000/year (this was in the mid 90's). Several of the Asian students were' made offers to when they graduated. According to their student visa's they had six months after graduating to find a US job or they would have to return home. Considering starting pay for an entry level engineering job in India, China, SE Asia was around $500 to $800/month they were take any reasonable job offers. So they were getting offers of around $30,000 to $35,000 per year which indeed does drive down the wages in the tech market.

I've seen the same happen in Nursing. Wages for RN's went down dramatically in the 2000's as compared to the 1990's due to a huge influx of nurses immigrating to the US.

Do you support limiting these H-1B visas then?
 
That sort of reasoning is a moral slippery slope. You can't put a "cost" on everything. For example, diversity has always played a critical role in the American cultural, social and economic dynamic. It prevents us from stagnating and forces us to accept new ideas. Please, place a cost or a price on that. I can give other examples too. Don't get me wrong, there is a time and a place for cost benefit analysis but it has its limits.

That is flawed thinking. Everything has a cost. EVERYTHING. To claim otherwise is illogical and wishful thinking
 
Do you support limiting these H-1B visas then?
Yes I do. I can see extending their Student visa to one year after they graduate to find a job on the open market. If they can find a job I don't have a problem with granting them a temporary work visa until they can complete the process for conditional permenant residency but if they can't do it on the open market.......as String stated.....tough tities. What the tech industry is trying to do is not obtain more qualified workers, they want to obtain qualified workers who will work for less money. Fuck that. Many of these graduates in tech and engineering fields have great acadmic credentials mainly cause they are rote memorization machines but put them into the real world where you also have to think, solve problems, earn money and have an imagination and they lack something to be desired. That's why many of them have trouble competing in the market place. The Tech sector mainly want them for lower paid technician positions. It's BS. I remeber how funny it was working with those guys from Asia at OSU. They all had great academic credentials but put them in a real world situation and I could blow their doors out of the water....and I'm not even an engineer and lord the damage they could do if you turned them lose and unsupervised in a lab!!
 
That is flawed thinking. Everything has a cost. EVERYTHING. To claim otherwise is illogical and wishful thinking
Really? What is the cost/price for your health? Give me an objective figure. What is the cost/price for your integrity? Give me an objective figure? What is the cost/price for your values? Give me an objective figure. What is the cost/price for your freedoms? Give me an objective figure.

I utterly reject that notion. There is a time and a place for cost benefit analysis but human beings are not a commodity.
 
Yes I do. I can see extending their Student visa to one year after they graduate to find a job on the open market. If they can find a job I don't have a problem with granting them a temporary work visa until they can complete the process for conditional permenant residency but if they can't do it on the open market.......as String stated.....tough tities. What the tech industry is trying to do is not obtain more qualified workers, they want to obtain qualified workers who will work for less money. Fuck that. Many of these graduates in tech and engineering fields have great acadmic credentials mainly cause they are rote memorization machines but put them into the real world where you also have to think, solve problems, earn money and have an imagination and they lack something to be desired. That's why many of them have trouble competing in the market place. The Tech sector mainly want them for lower paid technician positions. It's BS. I remeber how funny it was working with those guys from Asia at OSU. They all had great academic credentials but put them in a real world situation and I could blow their doors out of the water....and I'm not even an engineer and lord the damage they could do if you turned them lose and unsupervised in a lab!!

H-1B visas are one of those interesting political issues where there is both bi-partisan support and bi-partisan opposition. Why do you believe Democrats who represent non high tech areas would support an increase? (I have not look at the entire list of who does and doesn't support the legislation but for the sake of discussion I'm going to assume there are some Democrats like I referenced above.)
 
You mean hire American workers for minimum wage. The reason these companies can't hold onto American workers is not that Americans won't do the work. They won't do it for crap wages when they have better employment options elsewhere. Housekeepers in the Hotel industry is a perfect example. It's tough ball busting work that pays barely more than minimum wage. My wife is an executive housekeeper at a 200 room hotel. $10/hour is the magic number for them. When they pay $10/hour they attract and keep American workers. When they pay less than that they lose the American workers and become depended on immigrant laborers. Typically speaking they start at $8/hr.....$0.50/hour more than minimum wage and no medical or retirement benefits. So their housekeepers are overwhelminlgy latinas.

So I'm going to assume many of the people doing the work at $8/hr are not here legally. Wouldn't it benefit the American worker to not have the competition from those here illegally to force the hotels to pay more?
 
Really? What is the cost/price for your health? Give me an objective figure. What is the cost/price for your integrity? Give me an objective figure? What is the cost/price for your values? Give me an objective figure. What is the cost/price for your freedoms? Give me an objective figure.

I utterly reject that notion. There is a time and a place for cost benefit analysis but human beings are not a commodity.

You can reject that notion, but that doesn't change the truth and that everything has a cost. It doesn't always have to be a dollar amount, it could be time, relationships. Etc, but everything has a cost.

The questions you pose are straw man arguments. Buy I will play along with your recent healthcare scare (i thinknit was you) when you bitched it up about not knowing the the charges up front.

The truth of the matter is that at the time you did a cost/benefit analysis on your health at that particular moment in time. You decided that knowing what was wrong was more important than knowing the "charge". You assigned a cost to your health

I know you think you are being holier than thou, but your position is quite naive and childish. In would expect more from you
 
I am an american citizen, with a vested interest in this country. I have the power to help create law and policy.

We should do what benefits us, whatever that may be.

Ultimately I look at everything as a cost benefit analysis. And the immigrants that come here are free to do one on their own. If whatever policies we put in place are so terrible, then they don't have to come here. If they do come here, then they've decided it would be an overall net positive, so no harm no foul.

What benefits us is the question. The cost and benefit to the immigrant affects ours. You may see no harm in treating people like livestock. I do. The discrepancy hurts domestic tech workers as they have to compete against indentured servants, does not help the visa holder as much as advertised and frankly I think it hurts the employers more than they realize.

I am not interested in creating legal frameworks that help one group at the expense of another. I am interested in individual rights and reducing the need for costly government programs. Why should I be taxed to bring in indentured servants that will compete against me?

I am all for giving immigrants opportunities to come here and create wealth. That's not what h1b's are about. Give them a green card and open up more opportunities for citizenship. Let them come here without the restrictions of h1b's and compete in the marketplace. Then they can quit for better jobs or form startups if they choose. More of them will create businesses that employ more workers. All the benfits the proponents of h1b's claim are increased by a system that does not restrict them and some of them are only present without the restrictions.
 
So I'm going to assume many of the people doing the work at $8/hr are not here legally. Wouldn't it benefit the American worker to not have the competition from those here illegally to force the hotels to pay more?
Myabe but then you'd be paying higher lodging fees at the hotel. Tough problem isn't it?
 
You can reject that notion, but that doesn't change the truth and that everything has a cost. It doesn't always have to be a dollar amount, it could be time, relationships. Etc, but everything has a cost.

The questions you pose are straw man arguments. Buy I will play along with your recent healthcare scare (i thinknit was you) when you bitched it up about not knowing the the charges up front.

The truth of the matter is that at the time you did a cost/benefit analysis on your health at that particular moment in time. You decided that knowing what was wrong was more important than knowing the "charge". You assigned a cost to your health

I know you think you are being holier than thou, but your position is quite naive and childish. In would expect more from you
Apples to oranges and a cost benefist analysis is, if you haven't heard, a monetary analysis. The point being there are some things which are difficult to put a price on. A persons or the publics health for one example.
 
Myabe but then you'd be paying higher lodging fees at the hotel. Tough problem isn't it?

Sure. It's just like Walmart or any other business for that matter. Either the owner is going to incur higher expenses, and less profit, or they are going to pass the cost on to the consumer. We (as a country) often talk about wanting to boost our middle class and pay living wages etc. well we all know (most of us at least) that that money isn't free, it comes from somewhere.
 
That sort of reasoning is a moral slippery slope. You can't put a "cost" on everything. For example, diversity has always played a critical role in the American cultural, social and economic dynamic. It prevents us from stagnating and forces us to accept new ideas. Please, place a cost or a price on that. I can give other examples too. Don't get me wrong, there is a time and a place for cost benefit analysis but it has its limits.

I don't really see your point. Every thing has upsides and downsides. Sometimes the upsides trounce the downsides. Sometimes it's closer. This above post is pretty meaningless to me.
 
Really? What is the cost/price for your health? Give me an objective figure. What is the cost/price for your integrity? Give me an objective figure? What is the cost/price for your values? Give me an objective figure. What is the cost/price for your freedoms? Give me an objective figure.

I utterly reject that notion. There is a time and a place for cost benefit analysis but human beings are not a commodity.

1. The healthier one is, the longer they live on average. Perhaps they stay in the job market longer which would decrease the demand for workers, or innovation in fields because society already have workers with a wealth of experience in known areas. Social security benefits would have to be paid out longer than expected. Overpopulation. Food shortages.

2. Integrity/values: Are you stupid? Take a look at religion or other belief systems of which people stick to so ardently and unwaveringly. You don't see a cost there? Look at the cost of al qaeda's values, or the catholic churches integrity during the inquisition. On a personal level, perhaps certain values clash with the values of others. Maybe by being unwavering on certain things one isolates themselves from others. Social shaming, mockery, stress, etc.

3. Americans are free to drink alcohol. The price is some will take advantage of that and get behind a wheel and kill people. The freedom to drive a car kills 40,000 people every single year. The freedom of democracy can create a situation where 3 wolves and a sheep decide on what to eat for dinner.

Got anymore? I can do this all day mott.

There is always a cost to everything.
 
So I'm going to assume many of the people doing the work at $8/hr are not here legally. Wouldn't it benefit the American worker to not have the competition from those here illegally to force the hotels to pay more?

Of course it would. That's why the GOP wants them here, to depress wages.
 
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