Torture, beatings, worsen condition of American pastor held in Iran

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Rationalist

Hail Voltaire
The American pastor jailed in Iran for his faith suffered new attacks and beatings, making his physical condition more serious than ever, according to family who visited him in prison today and saw the marks and injuries first-hand.

Saeed Abedini, the 32-year-old American who is serving an eight-year prison term in Iran because of his Christian faith, has been suffering for months from serious injuries, including internal bleeding from beatings at Iran’s notoriously brutal Evin prison.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/0...n-american-pastor-held-in-iran/#ixzz2REyvCEQw

Yay, more love and tolerance from the religion of peace.
 
Christiefan, if Islam is so awesome, would you be comfortable living in Iran, Saudi Arabia, or virtually any other Islamic state? If not, how come?
 
Thithicus said:
Christiefan, if Islam is so awesome, would you be comfortable living in Iran, Saudi Arabia, or virtually any other Islamic state? If not, how come?
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I don't wanna live in Saudi Arabia, those guys are so hardcore conservative they make the southern baptists look like Lutherans. Egypt might be OK, had a buddy who spent a semester there last year, polish catholic, religious, and they didn't do anything weird to him. Then again, he's a nice guy, maybe he knows the trick to getting along.
 
Thithicus said:
Christiefan, if Islam is so awesome, would you be comfortable living in Iran, Saudi Arabia, or virtually any other Islamic state? If not, how come?
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Iran, A'stan or SA, no. Not because of the religion, but because they're conservative patriarchal societies that consider women to be chattel, and that way of thinking pre-dated Islam by thousands of years.

FTR, I spent time in Morocco and saw plenty of young women who drove, worked, went to school, wore Western clothing and had professions. Another stereotype busted, huh.
 
Oh, and there are some orthodox Jews who fit this description, even here in Pgh.

"Patriarchal societies are typically more authoritarian and rely heavily on legal-rational modes of organization, show stronger military implication and more reliance on police repression to impose authority. It is a society that tends to hold contempt for women and for her attempts to emancipate herself.

In these societies, women are presented with an interpretation of the world made by men, and a history of the world defined by men's actions. For instance, in history we learn about war and read the stories of male writers, whereas the stories of women are scarcely told. This erasure of women's lives alienates women and fails to provide them with relevant role-models."
 
christiefan915 said:
Oh, and there are some orthodox Jews who fit this description, even here in Pgh.

"Patriarchal societies are typically more authoritarian and rely heavily on legal-rational modes of organization, show stronger military implication and more reliance on police repression to impose authority. It is a society that tends to hold contempt for women and for her attempts to emancipate herself.

In these societies, women are presented with an interpretation of the world made by men, and a history of the world defined by men's actions. For instance, in history we learn about war and read the stories of male writers, whereas the stories of women are scarcely told. This erasure of women's lives alienates women and fails to provide them with relevant role-models."
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So I'm guessing you must have a wealth of examples of Orthodox Jews mutilating or killing women? Didn't think so. All religions are fucked up, and most religions oppress women to some degree, but Islam takes the cake. Not getting a story told is minor compared to being buried in the sand and having rocks thrown at your head, or having your genitals mutilated, or being killed because you don't believe the words of some camel fucker that lived in 600AD.
 
christiefan915 said:
Iran, A'stan or SA, no. Not because of the religion, but because they're conservative patriarchal societies that consider women to be chattel, and that way of thinking pre-dated Islam by thousands of years.

FTR, I spent time in Morocco and saw plenty of young women who drove, worked, went to school, wore Western clothing and had professions. Another stereotype busted, huh.
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No it didn't. Those areas were once Mongol, and after that Ilkhanate (well, not Saudi). Women in those societies were equal in nearly every aspect of life.
 
Thithicus said:
So I'm guessing you must have a wealth of examples of Orthodox Jews mutilating or killing women? Didn't think so. All religions are fucked up, and most religions oppress women to some degree, but Islam takes the cake. Not getting a story told is minor compared to being buried in the sand and having rocks thrown at your head, or having your genitals mutilated, or being killed because you don't believe the words of some camel fucker that lived in 600AD.
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Religion is created by men, I believe men are the problem, they are the cause of the oppression of women.
 
Chapel The Evergreen said:
They were for 200 years after the 1200s.
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And then everything went back to the way it was before. Surely you're not defending the Mongols. How were they any better than Muslims? Pretty interesting that they replaced mosques with Buddhist temples.

"The Mongol invasion was disastrous to the Iranians. Although the Mongol invaders were eventually converted to Islam and accepted the culture of Iran, the Mongol destruction of the Islamic heartland marked a major change of direction for the region. Much of the six centuries of Islamic scholarship, culture, and infrastructure was destroyed as the invaders burned libraries, and replaced mosques with Buddhist temples.[SUP][66][/SUP] The Mongols killed many civilians. Just in Merv and Urgench(Gorganj) about 2.5 million civilians were slaughtered.[SUP][67][/SUP][SUP][verification needed][/SUP] Destruction of qanat irrigation systems destroyed the pattern of relatively continuous settlement, producing numerous isolated oasis cities in a land where they had previously been rare.[SUP][68][/SUP] A large number of people, particularly males, were killed; between 1220 and 1258, the total population of Iran may have dropped from 2,500,000 to 250,000 as a result of mass extermination and famine."[69]
 
christiefan915 said:
And then everything went back to the way it was before. Surely you're not defending the Mongols. How were they any better than Muslims? Pretty interesting that they replaced mosques with Buddhist temples.

"The Mongol invasion was disastrous to the Iranians. Although the Mongol invaders were eventually converted to Islam and accepted the culture of Iran, the Mongol destruction of the Islamic heartland marked a major change of direction for the region. Much of the six centuries of Islamic scholarship, culture, and infrastructure was destroyed as the invaders burned libraries, and replaced mosques with Buddhist temples.[SUP][66][/SUP] The Mongols killed many civilians. Just in Merv and Urgench(Gorganj) about 2.5 million civilians were slaughtered.[SUP][67][/SUP][SUP][verification needed][/SUP] Destruction of qanat irrigation systems destroyed the pattern of relatively continuous settlement, producing numerous isolated oasis cities in a land where they had previously been rare.[SUP][68][/SUP] A large number of people, particularly males, were killed; between 1220 and 1258, the total population of Iran may have dropped from 2,500,000 to 250,000 as a result of mass extermination and famine."[69]
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Didn't Billy just recently post that he and his friend fantasize about being Mongols?
 
Rana said:
Religion is created by men, I believe men are the problem, they are the cause of the oppression of women.
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Men are created by women and raised by women, they are the root of the problem and the oppression of men.

See how silly that sounds?

No I suppose you don't.
 
Disillusioned said:
Men are created by women and raised by women, they are the root of the problem and the oppression of men.

See how silly that sounds?

No I suppose you don't.
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Men are oppressed, please elaborate.

What about fathers, do they have a part in raising these males, if not maybe it is the lack of males in their lives.

Can you supply data that shows it is mothers that cause males to oppress women.
 
christiefan915 said:
And then everything went back to the way it was before. Surely you're not defending the Mongols. How were they any better than Muslims? Pretty interesting that they replaced mosques with Buddhist temples.

"The Mongol invasion was disastrous to the Iranians. Although the Mongol invaders were eventually converted to Islam and accepted the culture of Iran, the Mongol destruction of the Islamic heartland marked a major change of direction for the region. Much of the six centuries of Islamic scholarship, culture, and infrastructure was destroyed as the invaders burned libraries, and replaced mosques with Buddhist temples.[SUP][66][/SUP] The Mongols killed many civilians. Just in Merv and Urgench(Gorganj) about 2.5 million civilians were slaughtered.[SUP][67][/SUP][SUP][verification needed][/SUP] Destruction of qanat irrigation systems destroyed the pattern of relatively continuous settlement, producing numerous isolated oasis cities in a land where they had previously been rare.[SUP][68][/SUP] A large number of people, particularly males, were killed; between 1220 and 1258, the total population of Iran may have dropped from 2,500,000 to 250,000 as a result of mass extermination and famine."[69]
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I'm saying that their culture was one of tolerance and equality with regards to women, and was so for about 200 years. This was to counter your incorrect assertion that it was culture, not religion, that dictated those nations views on women. I have no problem with the Islamic nations use of violence, at the time as it was the international and cultural standard of all nations and peoples. In that regard they were no worse or better (relatively speaking) than others.
 
Chapel The Evergreen said:
I'm saying that their culture was one of tolerance and equality with regards to women, and was so for about 200 years. This was to counter your incorrect assertion that it was culture, not religion, that dictated those nations views on women. I have no problem with the Islamic nations use of violence, at the time as it was the international and cultural standard of all nations and peoples. In that regard they were no worse or better (relatively speaking) than others.
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Not culture? Take Islam out of the equation and consider the Bible. Women did not have equal rights to men, they were considered possessions. Maybe Mongol culture was the exception to the rule but it was a short-lived exception. Nobody who knows anything about the world could say that societies everywhere weren't patriarchal by a vast majority.
 
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