Torture, beatings, worsen condition of American pastor held in Iran

christiefan915 said:
Not culture? Take Islam out of the equation and consider the Bible. Women did not have equal rights to men, they were considered possessions. Maybe Mongol culture was the exception to the rule but it was a short-lived exception. Nobody who knows anything about the world could say that societies everywhere weren't patriarchal by a vast majority.
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And yet despite 200 years of immersion in a different culture, they maintained their patriarchal ways. Europe grew out of them despite just as much conditioning as Islamic nations, and they didn't have 200 years of culture injected into them.

As I have said before, unlike other religions, Islam does not change with the times, and has no mechanism for change.
 
Chapel The Evergreen said:
And yet despite 200 years of immersion in a different culture, they maintained their patriarchal ways. Europe grew out of them despite just as much conditioning as Islamic nations, and they didn't have 200 years of culture injected into them.

As I have said before, unlike other religions, Islam does not change with the times, and has no mechanism for change.
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Yes, Christianity had a very plausible mechanism in "render unto Caesar what is Caesar's." It was this excerpt that paved the way for liberalization. Islam has no such mechanism.
 
Thithicus said:
Yes, Christianity had a very plausible mechanism in "render unto Caesar what is Caesar's." It was this excerpt that paved the way for liberalization. Islam has no such mechanism.
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Well, my thoughts were more that Christianity has an actual heirarchy and structure to it. Islam does no longer (the Kaliphs used to somewhat fill this role). But even when they did, there were no any changes in practices or doctrine, no great councils to decide ecumenical matters. To advocate anything other than what has been done for 1.5 millenia is heresy and punished with death.
 
Chapel The Evergreen said:
And yet despite 200 years of immersion in a different culture, they maintained their patriarchal ways. Europe grew out of them despite just as much conditioning as Islamic nations, and they didn't have 200 years of culture injected into them.

As I have said before, unlike other religions, Islam does not change with the times, and has no mechanism for change.
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All well and good but it strayed from the original point, which was that Islam didn't create a patriarchal society, it existed for thousands of years before Muhammad.
 
I have to ask why you're so apologetic about the inherent flaws in the structure of Islam. I know you don't make the same allowances about the Catholic Church.
 
Thithicus said:
Yes, it is clear that she holds Islam in a regard higher than even her own professed faith. The question is, why?
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You know nothing of Christie or very little of what she holds in regards, just as we truly don't know you, you don't know her. I have seen you go from fervent belief to fervent rejection of belief in a very short time. I have known Christie to talk very litte about her personal beliefs, but simply contest the things she finds unfactional or unfair with facts of her own for over 10 years, she is consistent in her beliefs.
 
Rana said:
You know nothing of Christie or very little of what she holds in regards, just as we truly don't know you, you don't know her. I have seen you go from fervent belief to fervent rejection of belief in a very short time. I have known Christie to talk very litte about her personal beliefs, but simply contest the things she finds unfactional or unfair with facts of her own for over 10 years, she is consistent in her beliefs.
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Thanks hon, you're the best. (((Rana)))
 
Back in those days, women were property of men. Men had the role of protector and hunter. Women had the role of gathering and keeping the home.

We do not live in those days anymore. Women can take care of an entire family alone. Women are at least equals of men.

In many ways, superior.
 
Steelplate said:
Back in those days, women were property of men. Men had the role of protector and hunter. Women had the role of gathering and keeping the home.

We do not live in those days anymore. Women can take care of an entire family alone. Women are at least equals of men.

In many ways, superior.
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Oh, that is nice.
 
Threedee said:
Never seen Christie defend the Church. Ever.
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You just have selective memory. I defended the Church plenty over the pedophilia issue. People were saying that true Catholics should leave the church because if we stayed, it's like we were condoning pedophilia. It was a stupid argument against Catholicism, the same kind of stupid argument used against Muslims.

And maybe you're forgetting my recent argument with grind about electing a new pope. You should go back and find that thread; grind calling me a hypocrite because I named some personal characteristics I'd like to see in the man. Then Francis got elected and he has all the traits in the list I posted, and people are praising him to the skies because he's such a humble, down to earth guy. Man, that was comedy gold. It makes me laugh just to think of it.

I don't see you defending the Church on social teaching. Ever. You're one of those single-issue Catholics... abortion is murder, and to hell with the rest. You bash the poor, the workers and the unions and glorify corporations with as much gusto as any old non-believer.
 
christiefan915 said:
You just have selective memory. I defended the Church plenty over the pedophilia issue. People were saying that true Catholics should leave the church because if we stayed, it's like we were condoning pedophilia. It was a stupid argument against Catholicism, the same kind of stupid argument used against Muslims.

And maybe you're forgetting my recent argument with grind about electing a new pope. You should go back and find that thread; grind calling me a hypocrite because I named some personal characteristics I'd like to see in the man. Then Francis got elected and he has all the traits in the list I posted, and people are praising him to the skies because he's such a humble, down to earth guy. Man, that was comedy gold. It makes me laugh just to think of it.

I don't see you defending the Church on social teaching. Ever. You bash the poor, the workers and the unions and glorify corporations with as much gusto as any old non-believer.
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I forgot about those. I just remember our little Calvinist and her misinformation.
 
Rana said:
I forgot about those. I just remember our little Calvinist and her misinformation.
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OMG you're right! She was such a know-it-all. I remember her screeching at Trekbrit because he challenged her on a religious point, and she said something about how he ignored all her "learned information" on it. What a maroon! In addition to being just plain ignorant she had no knowledge of complex vocabulary.

ROTFL. Thanks for the laugh!
 
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