George Will leaving Republican Party

tsuke said:
because the same divisive politics that democrats use to keep minorites can also be used to target them. I feel with the massive democrat support for illegal immigration which benefits hispanics and free trade then the black vote can be targetted.
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You clearly don't understand the general black mindset if you think their belief is "we had it pretty good in America until the illegals came".
 
Right said:
Our efforts have been poor, in my opinion, because GOP candidates and politicians accept the false narrative, or don't have the balls to attack it using history and facts.

You seem to be accepting the narrative yourself with a comment such as above "[Trump] is the caricature..."
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I agree with you in the need to use our history when talking about ourselves but clearly we aren't the same party we were 50 or 100 years ago so that only goes so far. I look today at a City like Oakland where I grew up. Not a Republican in sight in that City and the City is a freaking mess. It would be ripe for Republicans to come in and offer a competing vision. I'm not exactly sure how that is done in a place where registered Republican voters number under 10%.

The polls don't lie on Trump. Minorities do not like him. He has outright offended the groups we are trying to reach most. He is setting us back.
 
cawacko said:
I agree with you in the need to use our history when talking about ourselves but clearly we aren't the same party we were 50 or 100 years ago so that only goes so far. I look today at a City like Oakland where I grew up. Not a Republican in sight in that City and the City is a freaking mess. It would be ripe for Republicans to come in and offer a competing vision. I'm not exactly sure how that is done in a place where registered Republican voters number under 10%.

The polls don't lie on Trump. Minorities do not like him. He has outright offended the groups we are trying to reach most. He is setting us back.
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You think that Republicans could change Oakland, and just how do you think that they could do that? What competing vision would they offer in your opinion?
 
Rana said:
You think that Republicans could change Oakland, and just how do you think that they could do that? What competing vision would they offer in your opinion?
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Two areas; pro-growth policies and education.

To start not all will like pro-growth policies. Many people today are complaining they are being priced out of their neighborhoods. So if your goal is to keep Oakland cheap then new development is not your thing.

Oakland is a city of 400K and there is little to no big retail stores available. How is that possible in a city that size? Growing up I never bought school clothes in Oakland. We went to SF or Walnut Creek. And then Emeryville next door built all this big box retail and now reaps the tax benefits while Oakland still has nothing. Oakland has development fees that make it expensive to build when it needs to be doing everything it can to encourage developers to want to come, not discouraging them.

Based on its weather, location and BART Oakland and its downtown areas should be thriving. Instead we still can't collect enough tax dollars which means we don't have enough officers on the street which means crime is still too high here which scares people off.

Oakland doesn't even have one high ranking good public school. Not one. That's unacceptable. They've actually opened several charter schools recently that have done well but a change has to be made in the education status quo.
 
cawacko said:
Should we just sit back and say "i sure hope those liberals will be honest one day?"
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I laugh at liberals being more honest, like the conservatives are the standard bearers of honesty. If you think that they are, you need to get your head on straight.
 
cawacko said:
I agree with you in the need to use our history when talking about ourselves but clearly we aren't the same party we were 50 or 100 years ago so that only goes so far. I look today at a City like Oakland where I grew up. Not a Republican in sight in that City and the City is a freaking mess. It would be ripe for Republicans to come in and offer a competing vision. I'm not exactly sure how that is done in a place where registered Republican voters number under 10%.

The polls don't lie on Trump. Minorities do not like him. He has outright offended the groups we are trying to reach most. He is setting us back.
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To Right, I just recognized I sort of changed the dynamics of the conversation here as we were talking nationally and I brought up a local City. That's my bad.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
it is illogical to apply a racial demographic from "let's elect the first black president" elections to all elections.....the Democrats can't rely on heavy participation and 97% loyalty from blacks in all elections....
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THAT's going to be an interesting number in November. No way blacks are going to turn out for Hillary like they did Obama. I suspect Hillary's campaign is counting on the not-Trump vote to turn out blacks and other minorities.

Polls reflect the popular vote but presidents are elected via the electoral college and RCP has FL, PA and OH as toss up states. In fact they have 164 toss up electoral votes, which is probably unusual even in June.
 
cawacko said:
Two areas; pro-growth policies and education.

To start not all will like pro-growth policies. Many people today are complaining they are being priced out of their neighborhoods. So if your goal is to keep Oakland cheap then new development is not your thing.

Oakland is a city of 400K and there is little to no big retail stores available. How is that possible in a city that size? Growing up I never bought school clothes in Oakland. We went to SF or Walnut Creek. And then Emeryville next door built all this big box retail and now reaps the tax benefits while Oakland still has nothing. Oakland has development fees that make it expensive to build when it needs to be doing everything it can to encourage developers to want to come, not discouraging them.

Based on its weather, location and BART Oakland and its downtown areas should be thriving. Instead we still can't collect enough tax dollars which means we don't have enough officers on the street which means crime is still too high here which scares people off.

Oakland doesn't even have one high ranking good public school. Not one. That's unacceptable. They've actually opened several charter schools recently that have done well but a change has to be made in the education status quo.
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Cawacko do you really think education is an area that Republicans are going to change for the better in Oakland, the Republican officials goal is usually to get rid of teachers unions, which doesn't have a positive effect on schools, stats show what states with more unions have better education than those who have no unions for teachers. they also support schools of choice, again, even though the data shows that these school are not producing good results. Another failed policy of the Republicans is to tie test scores of students to teachers pay, again, stats show that this has the opposite effect on teachers, it lowers morale and does not get rid of the dead wood. There is also a teacher shortage because of the failed idea of Republicans to pay teachers less money.

Republicans also like the idea of teaching to the test instead of letting teachers use their imagination, ingenuity and creativity to teach in the classrooms. Republicans find new ways to stifle teachers.

I don't see how any of the ideas for education that Republicans have will better the education in Oakland or anywhere for that matter, but that is just my opinion after many years of fighting for the education system in Alaska and seeing the dismal results of "No Child Left Behind"
 
Rana said:
Cawacko do you really think education is an area that Republicans are going to change for the better in Oakland, the Republican officials goal is usually to get rid of teachers unions, which doesn't have a positive effect on schools, stats show what states with more unions have better education than those who have no unions for teachers. they also support schools of choice, again, even though the data shows that these school are not producing good results. Another failed policy of the Republicans is to tie test scores of students to teachers pay, again, stats show that this has the opposite effect on teachers, it lowers morale and does not get rid of the dead wood. There is also a teacher shortage because of the failed idea of Republicans to pay teachers less money.

Republicans also like the idea of teaching to the test instead of letting teachers use their imagination, ingenuity and creativity to teach in the classrooms. Republicans find new ways to stifle teachers.

I don't see how any of the ideas for education that Republicans have will better the education in Oakland or anywhere for that matter, but that is just my opinion after many years of fighting for the education system in Alaska and seeing the dismal results of "No Child Left Behind"
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I'm not talking about NCLB on a local level. We're talking about the status quo of a school district that has been failing for years. Why people continue to be ok with it is beyond me. Hence new ideas that challenge what they have currently is a good thing. And that is where choice and competition come in.
 
cawacko said:
I agree with you in the need to use our history when talking about ourselves but clearly we aren't the same party we were 50 or 100 years ago so that only goes so far. I look today at a City like Oakland where I grew up. Not a Republican in sight in that City and the City is a freaking mess. It would be ripe for Republicans to come in and offer a competing vision. I'm not exactly sure how that is done in a place where registered Republican voters number under 10%.

The polls don't lie on Trump. Minorities do not like him. He has outright offended the groups we are trying to reach most. He is setting us back.
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It's not Trump. The GOP nominee could be Black Jesus and minorities would not like him, because Democrats would just form a different caricature for that candidate. So Trump isn't the problem here. The problem, again, is that the GOP won't fight the Democrats at their level, which, to use an analogy, is a street fight.

Trump, in my opinion, is the only candidate out of the original 17 that has the ability to street fight. George Will certainly doesn't have that ability, and neither did Romney.
 
Right said:
It's not Trump. The GOP nominee could be Black Jesus and minorities would not like him, because Democrats would just form a different caricature for that candidate. So Trump isn't the problem here. The problem, again, is that the GOP won't fight the Democrats at their level, which, to use an analogy, is a street fight.

Trump, in my opinion, is the only candidate out of the original 17 that has the ability to street fight. George Will certainly doesn't have that ability, and neither did Romney.
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I don't disagree with you that Democrats would try to caricaturize any Republican negatively (towards minorities) but Trump does it to himself.

How do you see Trump street fighting to win minority votes because I'm seeing the opposite (of course the election hasn't occurred yet so I'm just going off polling and what I read).
 
cawacko said:
I don't disagree with you that Democrats would try to caricaturize any Republican negatively (towards minorities) but Trump does it to himself.

How do you see Trump street fighting to win minority votes because I'm seeing the opposite (of course the election hasn't occurred yet so I'm just going off polling and what I read).
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How does Trump do it to himself?

Trump street-fought Ted Cruz, who has the best debate credentials of any candidate in my lifetime. He called him "Lying Ted" and it stuck. He's street fighting Mrs. Clinton with "Corrupt Hillary". George Will has his panties on fire because of this, but it works.

Trump should court women and minorities by street-fighting the Democrat Party. Point out the sordid history of the Party from slavery, segregation, women's suffrage, the KKK, the battle for civil rights. Point out how modern Democrat policies- liberalism- has changed the rhetoric but not the outcome. Explain how someone like Robert Byrd was a nobody, a loser, with his KKK robe but after he changed his rhetoric, his liberal policies as a Senator created more harm to the black family than he could ever do with his hood on.

Trump is already street-fighting Clinton with her war on woman narrative.
 
Right said:
How does Trump do it to himself?

Trump street-fought Ted Cruz, who has the best debate credentials of any candidate in my lifetime. He called him "Lying Ted" and it stuck. He's street fighting Mrs. Clinton with "Corrupt Hillary". George Will has his panties on fire because of this, but it works.

Trump should court women and minorities by street-fighting the Democrat Party. Point out the sordid history of the Party from slavery, segregation, women's suffrage, the KKK, the battle for civil rights. Point out how modern Democrat policies- liberalism- has changed the rhetoric but not the outcome. Explain how someone like Robert Byrd was a nobody, a loser, with his KKK robe but after he changed his rhetoric, his liberal policies as a Senator created more harm to the black family than he could ever do with his hood on.

Trump is already street-fighting Clinton with her war on woman narrative.
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I would LOVE if Trump would do that but he hasn't though. His anti-Muslim and anti-Hispanic comments have had the opposite effect. So he's making this a street fight the reverse direction.
 
Right said:
What comments, specifically?
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I'm sure you're familiar with his comments on Muslims, his birther comments on Obama, his comments on Mexicans when announcing his candidacy and his comments toward the Hispanic judge. Throw in some the white supremacists that have come out and supported his campaign and he hasn't exactly made himself the ideal candidate to speak to why minorities should support Republicans.

Edit: I would throw in his most recent: "He's my African-American" when talking about one black supporter.
 
cawacko said:
I'm sure you're familiar with his comments on Muslims, his birther comments on Obama, his comments on Mexicans when announcing his candidacy and his comments toward the Hispanic judge. Throw in some the white supremacists that have come out and supported his campaign and he hasn't exactly made himself the ideal candidate to speak to why minorities should support Republicans.

Edit: I would throw in his most recent: "He's my African-American" when talking about one black supporter.
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Without anything specific I can't comment further. You seem to be going along with the media attack on Trump.
 
I remember having a brief conversation with a black student of mine way back when GW Bush was running for the presidency.

"He's a racist" she said.

"What leads you to that judgement?"

"Someone told me that."

"Some Democrat?"

"Yeah I guess."

That type of shit is beyond full retard.
 
Right said:
Without anything specific I can't comment further. You seem to be going along with the media attack on Trump.
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I think you know many of the comments we are discussing. Maybe it's because of where I live but I read and hear a lot of what the black community says and some in the Hispanic community and the dislike and feeling of racial animosity towards Trump is strong.

To me it's too facile an answer to say it's the media's fault. Trump is a marketing genius. He's knows what he is doing. When he announced his candidacy he didn't say I'm against illegal immigration because it's hurting working class people of all backgrounds. He specifically said Mexico is sending their killers and other bad people here because he knew that would make headlines and he knew that would connect with a certain segment of the population and it did.

When he says a judge can't be fair to his case because this guy born in Indiana has Mexican parents how does that jibe at all with his claim Hispanics love him? It completely turns away the audience he should be trying to reach.

When he says "that's my African-American" I saw that comment posted almost a dozen times on Facebook by black friends and read the following discussions. They all know what he meant by it. It's the exact opposite of trying to win people over to your side.

I'd point again to his unfavorable ratings among minorities. They didn't get that way out of the blue.
 
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