Venezuela: socialism failed the people

archives said:
I can't recall anyone going out of their way to praise Venezuela
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Do an advanced search on the board and enter Venezuela. You'll see threads from years ago with posters praising Chavez and Venezuela's economics.
 
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Superfreak said:
https://www.realclearworld.com/arti...uela_become_a_totalitarian_regime_112685.html

How many were pounding their chests proclaiming how awesome Venezuela was for its people under Chavez? Especially when oil was well above $100/brl.

Where are you all now? The people are starving and now are subjected to a dictator. Shocking this happened!
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And what came before that but a Capitalist dictatorship that was even worse and more brutal. You’re not asking the hard question of why the people of Venezuela walked away from your supply side laissez faire paradise for socializim?

The reality is they do so because Capitalism failed their country and created an old world dictatorship where a handful of oligarchs own everything which is what conservatives want to turn our nation into. The fact that they chose another failed socioeconomic system just adds to the tragedy that is Venezuela.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
And what came before that but a Capitalist dictatorship that was even worse and more brutal. You’re not asking the hard question of why the people of Venezuela walked away from your supply side laissez faire paradise for socializim?

The reality is they do so because Capitalism failed their country and created an old world dictatorship where a handful of oligarchs own everything which is what conservatives want to turn our nation into. The fact that they chose another failed socioeconomic system just adds to the tragedy that is Venezuela.
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Capitalism failed because of corruption. In other words, pseudo-capitalism.
 
Right said:
Yet you vote for democrats...
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Yes, conservative ones who believe in fair taxation and the necessary social services and safety net ... which are needed in any society. I vote Conservative Democrats who would never vote for expansion of gun control. I vote Conservative Democrats who would never vote to expand abortion availability. I vote Conservative Democrats who would never want our society to be as restrictive and regulation laden as that of many European countries. So yes, I vote for Democrats.
 
leaningright said:
Yes, conservative ones who believe in fair taxation and the necessary social services and safety net ... which are needed in any society. I vote Conservative Democrats who would never vote for expansion of gun control. I vote Conservative Democrats who would never vote to expand abortion availability. I vote Conservative Democrats who would never want our society to be as restrictive and regulation laden as that of many European countries. So yes, I vote for Democrats.
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Gosh, back 30 years ago I thought that too. But that was 30 years ago. Then I learned that there is no such thing as a conservative Democrat. There are only degrees of liberalism. And as you just did, they misrepresent what Republicans stand for.

Name one Democrat who supports a fair tax system. You can't because they all support a progressive tax system, where many pay little if any (some get "refunds" that they never paid to begin with) while a small percentage are forced to pay the bulk of the federal tax burden.

Then name one Republican who doesn't support a safety net.
 
Jade Dragon said:
I'd ask were they get this nonsense about us praising Venezuela, but I'm pretty sure I already know what feeding trough they get these biased, and brain compromising ideas from.
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Black as Crap was forever banging on about Chavez, Gaddafi and Castro.

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Mott the Hoople said:
And what came before that but a Capitalist dictatorship that was even worse and more brutal. You’re not asking the hard question of why the people of Venezuela walked away from your supply side laissez faire paradise for socializim?

The reality is they do so because Capitalism failed their country and created an old world dictatorship where a handful of oligarchs own everything which is what conservatives want to turn our nation into. The fact that they chose another failed socioeconomic system just adds to the tragedy that is Venezuela.
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How do you explain then that Chavez was voted into power in 1998, if the Perez government was a brutal dictatorship? You might care to explain how a country goes from being the richest in South America to the brink of financial ruin. I recall many on here lauding Chavez including BAC, JPP's very own Che Guevara.

I know far more about the realities of socialism than the keyboard commies on here. I lived through the disastrous governments of the seventies which resulted in Labour having to go to the IMF for a loan. It always ends the same way, sadly we are forgetting the lessons of that time and a new generation are beguiled by the illiterate economic bullshit from avowed Marxists like Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell.

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Right said:
Capitalism failed because of corruption. In other words, pseudo-capitalism.
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Capitalism failed in Venezuela for the same reasons Socialism failed in Venezuela. The Nations who succeed economically have several things in common. Strong central governments with checks and balances to power a citizenry with strong respect for civil institutions.

My point being is that for every failed socialist State there’s quite a few failed Capitalist States like Ghana, Zimbabwe, Nigeria, Ecuador, Peru, etc and they fail for the same reasons.
 
If it goes on like this, the Venezuelans will be allowed to lock their children up and torture them without any check, ever.
 
Havana Moon said:
How do you explain then that Chavez was voted into power in 1998, if the Perez government was a brutal dictatorship? You might care to explain how a country goes from being the richest in South America to the brink of financial ruin. I recall many on here lauding Chavez including BAC, JPP's very own Che Guevara.

I know far more about the realities of socialism than the keyboard commies on here. I lived through the disastrous governments of the seventies which resulted in Labour having to go to the IMF for a loan. It always ends the same way, sadly we are forgetting the lessons of that time and a new generation are beguiled by the illiterate economic bullshit from avowed Marxists like Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell.

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The Venezuelan people bought into the LIE ... that IS socialism :palm:
 
Havana Moon said:
How do you explain then that Chavez was voted into power in 1998, if the Perez government was a brutal dictatorship? You might care to explain how a country goes from being the richest in South America to the brink of financial ruin. I recall many on here lauding Chavez including BAC, JPP's very own Che Guevara.

I know far more about the realities of socialism than the keyboard commies on here. I lived through the disastrous governments of the seventies which resulted in Labour having to go to the IMF for a loan. It always ends the same way, sadly we are forgetting the lessons of that time and a new generation are beguiled by the illiterate economic bullshit from avowed Marxists like Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell.

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For the same reasons you see it failing in other places around the world. Particularly Africa. I’m no fan of socialism or command economies but I am a student of history. SF Post was a clueless post cause it’s an ideological one that doesn’t consider that people turn to alternatives to Capitalism when Capitalism fails and examples abound through history of Capitalism failing.

Let’s use the example of Capitalism failing in oil rich Venezuela. A situation that has played out in oil rich Capitalist failed States all over Africa, Asia and the ME.

An abundant resource is discovered and developed in a nation but all the wealth, revenue, and profits are funneled into the hands of a few extremely wealthy families who do no invest that wealth internally in infrastructure, education, public services, etc,. Instead that vast amount of wealth, as you sited Venezuela had, was invested abroad by the handful of kleptocrats who controlled the wealth, for their own personal profits. Coinciding with a corruption of civil institutions that prop these kleptocracies. The end result, as happened in Venezuela, and a large number of failed Capitalist States, is an unsupportable income inequality where a handful of rich and powerful own everything and the masses of people are stuck in poverty. That’s why people turn away from Capitalism in these failed and turn to alternatives like Socialism and to ignore these historical facts is just silly.

Capitalism when well regulated and supported and balanced by strong civil institutions is extraordinarily successful but when not it often fails.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Capitalism failed in Venezuela for the same reasons Socialism failed in Venezuela. The Nations who succeed economically have several things in common. Strong central governments with checks and balances to power a citizenry with strong respect for civil institutions.

My point being is that for every failed socialist State there’s quite a few failed Capitalist States like Ghana, Zimbabwe, Nigeria, Ecuador, Peru, etc and they fail for the same reasons.
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Zimbabwe was a kleptocracy run by Mugabe for himself and his cronies in ZANU. Nigeria is country that suffers from having a Christian south and a Muslim north, that's a recipe for disaster.

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Mott the Hoople said:
For the same reasons you see it failing in other places around the world. Particularly Africa. I’m no fan of socialism or command economies but I am a student of history. SF Post was a clueless post cause it’s an ideological one that doesn’t consider that people turn to alternatives to Capitalism when Capitalism fails and examples abound through history of Capitalism failing.
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What you describe as Capitalism ... IS monarchy ... which is just the Old name ... for socialism.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
For the same reasons you see it failing in other places around the world. Particularly Africa. I’m no fan of socialism or command economies but I am a student of history. SF Post was a clueless post cause it’s an ideological one that doesn’t consider that people turn to alternatives to Capitalism when Capitalism fails and examples abound through history of Capitalism failing.

Let’s use the example of Capitalism failing in oil rich Venezuela. A situation that has played out in oil rich Capitalist failed States all over Africa, Asia and the ME.

An abundant resource is discovered and developed in a nation but all the wealth, revenue, and profits are funneled into the hands of a few extremely wealthy families who do no invest that wealth internally in infrastructure, education, public services, etc,. Instead that vast amount of wealth, as you sited Venezuela had, was invested abroad by the handful of kleptocrats who controlled the wealth, for their own personal profits. Coinciding with a corruption of civil institutions that prop these kleptocracies. The end result, as happened in Venezuela, and a large number of failed Capitalist States, is an unsupportable income inequality where a handful of rich and powerful own everything and the masses of people are stuck in poverty. That’s why people turn away from Capitalism in these failed and turn to alternatives like Socialism and to ignore these historical facts is just silly.

Capitalism when well regulated and supported and balanced by strong civil institutions is extraordinarily successful but when not it often fails.
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So how did Chavez and his cronies turn it into a country where supplies of soap and toilet are non existent except on the black market? Actually don't bother FP explains exactly why!

http://foreignpolicy.com/2013/06/17/this-is-why-there-is-no-toilet-paper-in-venezuela/

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IIRC, Perez stabilized Venezuela ... then handed over the reigns of power to the people and ... turned it into a democracy.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Capitalism failed in Venezuela for the same reasons Socialism failed in Venezuela. The Nations who succeed economically have several things in common. Strong central governments with checks and balances to power a citizenry with strong respect for civil institutions.

My point being is that for every failed socialist State there’s quite a few failed Capitalist States like Ghana, Zimbabwe, Nigeria, Ecuador, Peru, etc and they fail for the same reasons.
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Corruption causes the transfer of wealth from those who earned it to those who don't. Very quickly the earners learn not to bother. Socialism does the same thing.
 
There are so many idealistic fools in the US. China, India, Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam have found out the hard way that socialism only ever results in misery and poverty.

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