Oklahoma teacher protest

[leaningright]

I plan to retire and come back to the same school where I work and work part time. I see some calling that double dipping but after 30+ years of teaching 6 preps a day I am looking forward to a break. In OK I can teach up to 4 classes after I retire and still be considered part time, thus saving the district some money. I would do this for the school I work at for two reasons. 1) I believe the kids here deserve to have a quality math education. 2) The school where I work will have a difficult time finding someone certified in mathematics to come here to teach...I don’t want to leave them high and dry. Now to those who want to call that “double dipping” I don’t expect to do it for free....but it will save the school some money.

I would really like for our school to be able to hire a Math Ed instructor so that would free me up to teach some other things we are lacking: Programming/coding classes, Physics, Consumer math classes, etc.

Which brings me to another proposal that I have been vilified for even considering. I think that, at least for a while since there is such a shortage, people in Oklahoma who teach in STEM related fields should receive more compensation to at least try to draw some good Mathematical/Engineering/Scientific minds to public education.

 

[countryboy]

A high school friend took that picture...isn't it nice?

Yes, very. I love cardinals. They add color to the dreary winter landscape. I have a pic somewhere of about twenty of them in my crabapple tree.

Middle and High School Special Ed...And coached quite a number of sports...mainly swimming
Of course, that added significantly to my base salary...not...lol

Oh cool. A former neighbor of mine was a retired elementary school teacher from a well to do suburb of Cleveland. She was quite poverty stricken. Only had about 200 acres. Thankfully, she sold and moved to Florida, she was a big lib who thought she was the boss of all the surrounding properties. She hated hunting, and hunters, but wouldn't hesitate to kill the beavers and snapping turtles in her own ponds. I called her "The Selective Naturalist", lol.

I have customers who are teachers, and even a retired district superintendent.

 

[leaningright]

Yes, very. I love cardinals. They add color to the dreary winter landscape. I have a pic somewhere of about twenty of them in my crabapple tree.



Oh cool. A former neighbor of mine was a retired elementary school teacher from a well to do suburb of Cleveland. She was quite poverty stricken. Only had about 200 acres. Thankfully, she sold and moved to Florida, she was a big lib who thought she was the boss of all the surrounding properties. She hated hunting, and hunters, but wouldn't hesitate to kill the beavers and snapping turtles in her own ponds. I called her "The Selective Naturalist", lol.

I have customers who are teachers, and even a retired district superintendent.

We have a family of five trying to close on a place and move here (Oklahoma) from Ohio. They were at church services last night. Hope they can close and make the move. Like getting good people.

 

[TOP]

Yes, very. I love cardinals. They add color to the dreary winter landscape. I have a pic somewhere of about twenty of them in my crabapple tree.



Oh cool. A former neighbor of mine was a retired elementary school teacher from a well to do suburb of Cleveland. She was quite poverty stricken. Only had about 200 acres. Thankfully, she sold and moved to Florida, she was a big lib who thought she was the boss of all the surrounding properties. She hated hunting, and hunters, but wouldn't hesitate to kill the beavers and snapping turtles in her own ponds. I called her "The Selective Naturalist", lol.

I have customers who are teachers, and even a retired district superintendent.

I'm originally from the Cleveland area...both my parents were teachers, as well...I could probably make an educated guess at which district you might be speaking of...lol I'm from the other side of Cleveland suburbs...
And I know the big lib type...well...Never sorry to see them flee to Florida...
(I think the first year I taught I made a whopping $9,000....plus cheerleading and track stipends. I got a job almost immediately after graduation...and I was beyond happy...but the system has changed so much...it's hard to get, and keep, good teachers. For so many reasons. One being teachers actually being allowed to teach...I never give up that it will happen again someday soon...)

 

[floridafan]

Yes, very. I love cardinals. They add color to the dreary winter landscape. I have a pic somewhere of about twenty of them in my crabapple tree.



Oh cool. A former neighbor of mine was a retired elementary school teacher from a well to do suburb of Cleveland. She was quite poverty stricken. Only had about 200 acres. Thankfully, she sold and moved to Florida, she was a big lib who thought she was the boss of all the surrounding properties. She hated hunting, and hunters, but wouldn't hesitate to kill the beavers and snapping turtles in her own ponds. I called her "The Selective Naturalist", lol.

I have customers who are teachers, and even a retired district superintendent.

You are, as usual, totally fullofshit.

 

[TOP]

You are, as usual, totally fullofshit.

Ok...I have to ask. What's your problem with his reply...to me, btw?

 

[Mott the Hoople]

I picked this as the post to quote in my response. I knew going in back in 1984 what the pay was like in Oklahoma. I just wanted to teach, make a living, provide a home and be able to participate in my hobbies. I have been offered jobs with accounting firms after helping solve some problems for them over a summer ... more money. I have been offered jobs with a company that frames and dries in houses after working with them over a few summers ... more money. I have been offered jobs from a republican politician after helping him with his campaign ... more money. The latest is an offer from TI ... my teacher retirement in tact and more money. I have turned all of these offers down because I like to teach an am not out to do more than what I stated in the third sentence of this paragraph.

Along the way I have been fortunate to be able to travel to a few locations I didn’t have the desire to travel to when I started back in my twenties. That brings me to my second point...cost of living. I make enough to live comfortably. I own a 5 bedroom, 2200 sq ft house on two acres. Over the years it has been about a $60,000 investment. Much lower than a lot of places. I live among a lot of poor people. I make in the neighborhood of $45,000 a year and get to stay home doing it and that makes me rich in their eyes. The folks who go off and work in the oil industry or construction industry obviously make more but they have to go away to do it. But I fully understand why some can’t make a go on the starting salary in OK. If I hadn’t stayed single for so long (didn’t get married until I was 35) I don’t know if I could have done it. If I didn’t live in the country I’d have a much more difficult time. If I wasn’t raised and taught to make my own household repairs and do my own remodels I’d not have what I have. I drive a 21 year old truck and a 14 year old Tahoe. My wife does work and we keep her in a newer vehicle but it has over 100,000 miles on it.

To my third point.... It is not a raise that I want. I want our schools to be fully funded once again. We have been cut to the bare bones. I want our school to be able to hire a janitor so that I don’t have to clean my room every day and do the maintenance work on bathrooms that need to be done from time to time. I want to be able to buy new books for my classes...the ones that I use are 12+ years old. I’d like to have some that are more modern and tied to some online activities. I want our school to be able to offer music and art again. We have been cut more in the past 15 years than any state in the nation because of our republican leaders and their failure to value public education. I fully expect a wave in the other direction during the next few political cycles.

With that said, our staff of teachers voted unanimously not to participate in the walkout tomorrow. OKC passed a bill that implemented a tax increase (cigarette and fuel tax + gross production...the big one) and teacher raises. It is supposed to increase school funding and I think it would mean about an $8000 raise for me, less for teachers with fewer years of experience. Whatever. I just want them to fund our schools so we can do our jobs. I want them to appreciate that we’ve been doing more with less for a long time and we are growing tired. I’m OK with what they’ve passed if they’ll just follow through and not go back and change things. But Oklahoma Educators Association isn’t satisfied and is encouraging the walkout take place anyway. Tom Coburn is organizing on the other side to protest the increase in taxes. And I’m still tired. I’m ready to retire and get a job driving a tractor for Fish and Game.

Didn't you hear? The OK House chopped the Hotel/Motel and Oil Production tax that are largely funding the measure.

Nice post LR and God Bless you for the professional sacrifices you've made. You should never have been made to make them and your compensation should be commensurate with your skill and knowledge level. I couldn't make that sacrifice...or my desire to strangle teenagers.

Ultimately it does boil down to living well doesn't it?

 

[Mott the Hoople]

so beg your local school board to double your property taxes.........

That's an important point. Local control means local taxation to pay for it, vis-a-vis property taxes which creates an inbuilt source of inequity into our public education system but, as of yet, I haven't heard of any alternative forms of financing public education that wouldn't reduce or eliminate local control in public education. Quite the pickle eh?

 

[Mott the Hoople]

40k a year is above average pay around here for any job......

Well correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it a tad unfair to compare a college educated professional to a Fry Cook at McDonald's?

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Low priority? You're kidding right? We spend more per student in this country than just about everywhere else in the world. Yes, there are states like Oklahoma where some teachers are underpaid. But throughout most of the country teachers are actually paid quite well. In my state, Ohio, the base salary in most cities is over $50,000. Many teachers make more than double that, to say nothing of administrators.

That's actually the mean salary in Ohio and it's not really representative. You have communities like Dublin, Upper Arlington, Powel, New Albany that pay significantly above that mean and you have communities like Ironton, Portsmouth and Marietta that pay significantly below the mean salary. Teachers compensation is directly tied into the property tax base of that community and it's a problem in our State that no one has been able to fix. Kasich made it a priority in his first term and the courts backed him up but it's gone no where.

 

[Truth Detector]

Not sure who is paying attention to this, but it's tough to watch what some of these teachers have to do just to make ends meet. Many work multiple jobs. The salaries they have talked about our incomprehensibly low to me...often just above the poverty line.

OK ranks 49th in teacher pay, but it's not like it's that great in most states.

What does it say about America that we put such a low priority on compensating this profession? I actually can't think of too many professions that I would consider to be more important. It makes no sense, and is a poor investment in our future.

Who is forcing these teachers to work under such horrible conditions and low pay?

One thing is certain, they don't appear to be educating given the number of idiots out there who think the Government is this benevolent wealth redistributor.

 

[cawacko]

You're completely missing the point. I got that opportunity and was offered that package because I was highly skilled and talented. You're argument is a non sequitur and a double standard. So I take you back to my original question. Why not do what corporations do and offer compensation and working condition packages that are attractive to top tier talent? The issue of what low skilled entry level people get paid is a non sequitur as I pointed out. If Educators knew that the skills and talents of their profession are attractively compensated for with rewarding working conditions Unions wouldn't even be needed, would they?

The fact that most Educators are protected by Unions is indicative that this is not the case in reality.

There are 3.6 million teachers/educators in the U.S. what private firm that you believe pays high salaries to first year workers hire anywhere near the number of teachers that get hired annually? And what corporation is broken up into thousands of areas across the country the determine pay on an individual level as cities do?

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Double dipping is standard procedure here in Ohio. Teachers here are far from underpaid. They do quite well, as they should.

That's not completely true. With the exception of Mercer, Auglaize and Allen counties most rural Ohio counties pay educators well below the State median income for teachers. As I said, the averages are not really accurate in our State. It depends largely on which community you teach in.

 

[countryboy]

You are, as usual, totally fullofshit.

Lol, the last refuge of libs when they have no argument. Accuse your opponent of lying.

Sooo, what part am I "Full of shit" on? Can you be more specific?

 

[countryboy]

That's actually the mean salary in Ohio and it's not really representative. You have communities like Dublin, Upper Arlington, Powel, New Albany that pay significantly above that mean and you have communities like Ironton, Portsmouth and Marietta that pay significantly below the mean salary. Teachers compensation is directly tied into the property tax base of that community and it's a problem in our State that no one has been able to fix. Kasich made it a priority in his first term and the courts backed him up but it's gone no where.

According to the website I visited, it's the base salary. Teacher salaries are public record in Ohio, if you don't believe me, simply look it up. Prove me wrong, should be easy.

 

[PostmodernProphet]

Well correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it a tad unfair to compare a college educated professional to a Fry Cook at McDonald's?

perhaps.....but if you apply yourself they may give you a raise.......

 

[countryboy]

That's not completely true. With the exception of Mercer, Auglaize and Allen counties most rural Ohio counties pay educators well below the State median income for teachers. As I said, the averages are not really accurate in our State. It depends largely on which community you teach in.

As I said before, teacher salaries are public record here. Look it up and prove me wrong. Easy peasy japanesey.

 

[Darth Omar]

Thanks for saying this. My youngest is a teacher, with a masters in special ed/minor in early childhood special ed. She makes $40K/year, after 8 years of teaching.

WTF.

Teachers here in WV were on strike for about three weeks.

I had mixed up emotions about it as a healthcare worker. Granted, they were underpaid for what they do but many of us in healthcare feel their pain lol. Also, their health insurance package is better than than most healthcare workers—way better, in some instances and their pension package is better than most of us in the private sector. Many hospitals have been forced to drop them all together. Let’s see, they also get to go on strike but we’re at the mercy of the hospital administrators because we can’t go on strike for obvious ethical reasons—administrators know this, and take advantage of it.

And they get summers off. Most of us can only imagine such a thing. So while I understand the importance of teachers, I can’t honestly say that I felt sorry for them.

So, teachers here got their raise and I’ll sit here and wait for my taxes to go up.

 

[cawacko]

Yes I do. The Teachers Unions are not there to look after the students interests. They are there to provide for teachers interests because as a teacher, or any professional for that matter, your first responsibility is to yourself. If you cannot even provide for yourself and your family or advance your prospects as a professional you cannot look after the interests of your students. Would you continue to continue to work in your field if you were expected to sacrifice your own self interests for those of your clients?

It's a silly question. Teachers Unions purpose and function is to look after Teachers. Students collectively have parents, administrations and teachers who look after their interests. I just can't get my head around the double standard that many people have towars educators as professionals that they would never, ever accept for themselves.

Not that Steve Jobs in the end all be all but here's what he said about teachers unions. It is a fact no group stands in the way of change more in our education system than teachers unions.


Jobs Bashes Teachers Unions

https://www.pcworld.com/article/129214/article.html

 

[Rune]

Of course she did. She wanted to be a teacher from age 7 and up, never wavered, never considered anything else. She doesn't complain about the salary; that's *my* job on her behalf (as well as other teachers too).

Honestly with just 8 years experience and only working 180 days a year instead of 250 in addition to a pretty lightweight masters 40K seems fair.