Oklahoma teacher protest

I wish them luck...there's a tremendous amount of money misappropriated in our schools. I'd love to see all those funds actually go to teachers and students.
What a concept...
 
Thing1 said:
Not sure who is paying attention to this, but it's tough to watch what some of these teachers have to do just to make ends meet. Many work multiple jobs. The salaries they have talked about our incomprehensibly low to me...often just above the poverty line.

OK ranks 49th in teacher pay, but it's not like it's that great in most states.

What does it say about America that we put such a low priority on compensating this profession? I actually can't think of too many professions that I would consider to be more important. It makes no sense, and is a poor investment in our future.
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so beg your local school board to double your property taxes.........
 
Thing1 said:
Not sure who is paying attention to this, but it's tough to watch what some of these teachers have to do just to make ends meet. Many work multiple jobs. The salaries they have talked about our incomprehensibly low to me...often just above the poverty line.

OK ranks 49th in teacher pay, but it's not like it's that great in most states.

What does it say about America that we put such a low priority on compensating this profession? I actually can't think of too many professions that I would consider to be more important. It makes no sense, and is a poor investment in our future.
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It is short sighted indeed. I turned down an offer to teach high school science because they pay package and conditions of employment were insulting. I truly respect the dedication of Educators who make these sacrifices.
 
cawacko said:
LR is a teacher in Oklahoma. I know there is no easy answer for this but if we really want the best to become teachers we need to have a different compensation model other than just years taught.
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How about doing what most corporations do. Offer attractive pay, benefits and working conditions to attract the best talent?
 
Thing1 said:
Not sure who is paying attention to this, but it's tough to watch what some of these teachers have to do just to make ends meet. Many work multiple jobs. The salaries they have talked about our incomprehensibly low to me...often just above the poverty line.

OK ranks 49th in teacher pay, but it's not like it's that great in most states.

What does it say about America that we put such a low priority on compensating this profession? I actually can't think of too many professions that I would consider to be more important. It makes no sense, and is a poor investment in our future.
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I agree that teachers are underpaid for the job they do. However "According to the BLS, in 2016, elementary school teachers earned a median salary of $55,800. The best-paid earned about $88,590, while the lowest-paid made approximately $36,560."
https://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/elementary-school-teacher/salary
You cannot only look at the amount you must also take the cost of living into account. $36k may be fine in some areas while $55k may be borderline in others.

You also have to realize that in most states home owners pay a school tax. In my area my school tax is higher than my property tax. So it isn't a simple problem.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
How about doing what most corporations do. Offer attractive pay, benefits and working conditions to attract the best talent then protect them from politics?
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Many corporations don't pay jack to those first starting. Within almost every corporation though the best have an opportunity to advance and earn much higher pay. That doesn't exist in teaching.
 
Thing1 said:
As far as I can remember, LR has never complained about pay. I know cost of living is low there, but some of the salary ranges they were talking about were so low - and, of course, school supplies, books and any kind of special programs really suffer, as well.

Budget is a direct reflection of our priorities as a nation. I just think it's embarrassing how low proper education is on the list. That kind of investment pays for itself many times over.
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It is definitely a reflection of our priorities.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
It is short sighted indeed. I turned down an offer to teach high school science because they pay package and conditions of employment were insulting. I truly respect the dedication of Educators who make these sacrifices.
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School systems lose a tremendous number of people who would be wonderful teachers for that very reason. It's really sad.
And difficult to talk young people, who have always wanted to be teachers, to go in that direction.
My niece just got her degree and teaching credentials and would be awesome in the classroom...but I'm wondering if she will ever teach. For the same reasons you mention... She's turned down several jobs already....We did warn her..
 
Mott the Hoople said:
How about doing what most corporations do. Offer attractive pay, benefits and working conditions to attract the best talent?
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Unions don't allow it. For example first year 22 year old teachers aren't going to make $100K. Just now going to happen across the board. Yet if Bill Gates wanted to be a teacher he would make today what a 22 year old would make as a first year teacher. So basically there is zero economic flexibility to pay more for better teachers because unions require pay to be equal across the board based on years worked. Your performance has nothing to do with it. So as long as you are just good enough to keep your job and not be fired you get paid the same as the best teacher
 
Thing1 said:
Not sure who is paying attention to this, but it's tough to watch what some of these teachers have to do just to make ends meet. Many work multiple jobs. The salaries they have talked about our incomprehensibly low to me...often just above the poverty line.

OK ranks 49th in teacher pay, but it's not like it's that great in most states.

What does it say about America that we put such a low priority on compensating this profession? I actually can't think of too many professions that I would consider to be more important. It makes no sense, and is a poor investment in our future.
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this is a subject that needs to be confronted with the ISD boards everywhere. they control the budgets as they are their own gov entity. find out where all the money goes and you'll see the bureaucratic waste inherent in all gov entities
 
cawacko said:
Ouch, that's low (well from a California cost of living perspective at least)
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I know. And that's in Illinois, which generally seems to have higher salaries than Missouri, where she started out. The cost of living though is far lower than in California. Many years ago I had a cyber friend and fellow bird person who was a public school teacher in the San Francisco area. She said that even though they were well-paid by national measures, none of them could afford to live within an hour's drive of the schools where they taught. So added to the work that most teachers do outside of the school day, those instructors had to add a 2+ hour commute to their day as well.
 
leaningright said:
I picked this as the post to quote in my response. I knew going in back in 1984 what the pay was like in Oklahoma. I just wanted to teach, make a living, provide a home and be able to participate in my hobbies. I have been offered jobs with accounting firms after helping solve some problems for them over a summer ... more money. I have been offered jobs with a company that frames and dries in houses after working with them over a few summers ... more money. I have been offered jobs from a republican politician after helping him with his campaign ... more money. The latest is an offer from TI ... my teacher retirement in tact and more money. I have turned all of these offers down because I like to teach an am not out to do more than what I stated in the third sentence of this paragraph.

Along the way I have been fortunate to be able to travel to a few locations I didn’t have the desire to travel to when I started back in my twenties. That brings me to my second point...cost of living. I make enough to live comfortably. I own a 5 bedroom, 2200 sq ft house on two acres. Over the years it has been about a $60,000 investment. Much lower than a lot of places. I live among a lot of poor people. I make in the neighborhood of $45,000 a year and get to stay home doing it and that makes me rich in their eyes. The folks who go off and work in the oil industry or construction industry obviously make more but they have to go away to do it. But I fully understand why some can’t make a go on the starting salary in OK. If I hadn’t stayed single for so long (didn’t get married until I was 35) I don’t know if I could have done it. If I didn’t live in the country I’d have a much more difficult time. If I wasn’t raised and taught to make my own household repairs and do my own remodels I’d not have what I have. I drive a 21 year old truck and a 14 year old Tahoe. My wife does work and we keep her in a newer vehicle but it has over 100,000 miles on it.

To my third point.... It is not a raise that I want. I want our schools to be fully funded once again. We have been cut to the bare bones. I want our school to be able to hire a janitor so that I don’t have to clean my room every day and do the maintenance work on bathrooms that need to be done from time to time. I want to be able to buy new books for my classes...the ones that I use are 12+ years old. I’d like to have some that are more modern and tied to some online activities. I want our school to be able to offer music and art again. We have been cut more in the past 15 years than any state in the nation because of our republican leaders and their failure to value public education. I fully expect a wave in the other direction during the next few political cycles.

With that said, our staff of teachers voted unanimously not to participate in the walkout tomorrow. OKC passed a bill that implemented a tax increase (cigarette and fuel tax + gross production...the big one) and teacher raises. It is supposed to increase school funding and I think it would mean about an $8000 raise for me, less for teachers with fewer years of experience. Whatever. I just want them to fund our schools so we can do our jobs. I want them to appreciate that we’ve been doing more with less for a long time and we are growing tired. I’m OK with what they’ve passed if they’ll just follow through and not go back and change things. But Oklahoma Educators Association isn’t satisfied and is encouraging the walkout take place anyway. Tom Coburn is organizing on the other side to protest the increase in taxes. And I’m still tired. I’m ready to retire and get a job driving a tractor for Fish and Game.
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Great to get this perspective - thanks for posting.
 
Nordberg said:
Nope. You may not have noticed that people move from place to place. Education has to be universal. It has to travel.
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Do you realize that your one size fits all system only fits 1/3 of students
?
Where's Dixie when you need him?

Fully one third of students never graduates. The last third struggles without adequate education despite
attending 13 years of public school...

What a waste of resources.
If anything the status quo has only been worsened by Federal involvement, giving us the phenomenon of teaching to the test...all manner of children left behind.
I hate to say this but you are a true statist like so many other lefties.
Are you happy that Govco has decided how many layers of mathematics be taught but not civil rights?

Pretty easy to take away rights from those who don't know they have them,
and what of that last third whom the schools don't reach at all?
Can't join the service without a diploma, there are only so many leaf raking jobs and your side has ensured that there are plenty of illegals to take those jobs.
What is needed is the re-introduction of apprenticeships for those who already know exactly what they want to do or at least get exposure to options beyond dropping out and applying at McDonald's.
That would be actual progress.
 
Nordberg said:
Nope. You may not have noticed that people move from place to place. Education has to be universal. It has to travel.
Click to expand...


Do you realize that your one size fits all system only fits 1/3 of students
?
Where's Dixie when you need him?

Fully one third of students never graduates. The last third struggles without adequate education despite
attending 13 years of public school...

What a waste of resources.
If anything the status quo has only been worsened by Federal involvement, giving us the phenomenon of teaching to the test...all manner of children left behind.
I hate to say this but you are a true statist like so many other lefties.
Are you happy that Govco has decided how many layers of mathematics be taught but not civil rights?

Pretty easy to take away rights from those who don't know they have them,
and what of that last third whom the schools don't reach at all?
Can't join the service without a diploma, there are only so many leaf raking jobs and your side has ensured that there are plenty of illegals to take those jobs.
What is needed is the re-introduction of apprenticeships for those who already know exactly what they want to do or at least get exposure to options beyond dropping out and applying at McDonald's.
That would be actual progress.
 
Cypress said:
Dostoyevsky said you can judge the civilization of a society by looking into its prisons...but I think that can be amended to add a society can be judged on how it values it's teachers.

I do not think respect for teachers in the United States is very high. The lack of respect obviously translates to some degree to salary. Not many people encourage their kids to be teachers. I actually cannot think of any adult I know who actively talks up teaching and encourage their kids to pursue it.

Conservative dogma attacks public education year in and year out, decade after decade. I know over the years there have been discussions on the board in which the rightwing in particular, held public education and teachers in low esteem.

We live in a materialistic society that places enormous value on status, wealth, and the trappings of power. The pursuit of money and profit are often held to be the pinnacle of human achievement. Look at Trump - a lifetime pursuing money, prestige, wealth, and materialism. Does he seem like the type of guy that would hold teachers in high esteem?

I have a niece who loves being a teacher, but is thinking about getting out of it because it is almost impossible the make ends meet. I do not think it speaks well to our society that a prison guard or a Pentagon contractor could make a reasonably comfortable living, while a lot of teachers can't. I do not think super-charged, self-interested capitalism of the kind that exists in this country is completely to blame. But the lack of respect for teaching as a career and teachers in particular has to have at least something to do with how this country worships the kind of super-charged materialism, profiteering, and militarism seen on Wall Street, the Pentagon, and throughout the bastions of the existing economic hierarchy of this society.
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I would say that a better judge of a society is how it treats it's children.
Kids can't vote and have no legal rights so they are shit on by the one percent who runs this country.
 
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