Oklahoma teacher protest

Rune said:
Do you realize that your one size fits all system only fits 1/3 of students
?
Where's Dixie when you need him?

Fully one third of students never graduates. The last third struggles without adequate education despite
attending 13 years of public school...

What a waste of resources.
If anything the status quo has only been worsened by Federal involvement, giving us the phenomenon of teaching to the test...all manner of children left behind.
I hate to say this but you are a true statist like so many other lefties.
Are you happy that Govco has decided how many layers of mathematics be taught but not civil rights?

Pretty easy to take away rights from those who don't know they have them,
and what of that last third whom the schools don't reach at all?
Can't join the service without a diploma, there are only so many leaf raking jobs and your side has ensured that there are plenty of illegals to take those jobs.
What is needed is the re-introduction of apprenticeships for those who already know exactly what they want to do or at least get exposure to options beyond dropping out and applying at McDonald's.
That would be actual progress.
Click to expand...

:good4u:
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
Thanks for saying this. My youngest is a teacher, with a masters in special ed/minor in early childhood special ed. She makes $40K/year, after 8 years of teaching.

WTF.
Click to expand...

So what? Did she not look into what teachers earned before she decided on that profession? Maybe she isn’t so smart?

Tell her to find a job that pays more if money is more important to her.

Oh wait. You forgot to mention that she will retire at 50 making 75% of her last years jncome with full healthcare.
 
TOP said:
I wish them luck...there's a tremendous amount of money misappropriated in our schools. I'd love to see all those funds actually go to teachers and students.
What a concept...
Click to expand...

I remember the day I called our local small town school superintendent.

I wrote down the time and day of the call.

I am still waiting for the return phone call, 10 years later I am thinking she may not call anytime soon.

Her salary is more than any five teachers...her value to me, nada.
 
cawacko said:
Many corporations don't pay jack to those first starting. Within almost every corporation though the best have an opportunity to advance and earn much higher pay. That doesn't exist in teaching.
Click to expand...
That, as you might well know, depends on your qualifications and skill level. When I first started working in a corporation I received very good pay and benefits but I also had a very strong knowledge, skill and talent level. They offered me an attractive package of pay, benefits, bonus structure and working conditions so I accepted it. Now I have not exactly advanced far as I've only received one promotion in 15 years but that's compensated for by my bonus structure and annual pay increases that almost always exceed the rate of inflation. You are right, Educators do not receive these considerations. Why not?
 
Thing1 said:
Not sure who is paying attention to this, but it's tough to watch what some of these teachers have to do just to make ends meet. Many work multiple jobs. The salaries they have talked about our incomprehensibly low to me...often just above the poverty line.

OK ranks 49th in teacher pay, but it's not like it's that great in most states.

What does it say about America that we put such a low priority on compensating this profession? I actually can't think of too many professions that I would consider to be more important. It makes no sense, and is a poor investment in our future.
Click to expand...


Thre Teachers should pack up and move out, let the RW in Oklahoma do their teaching ....
 
Rune said:
I remember the day I called our local small town school superintendent.

I wrote down the time and day of the call.

I am still waiting for the return phone call, 10 years later I am thinking she may not call anytime soon.

Her salary is more than any five teachers...her value to me, nada.
Click to expand...
That's a part of the problem, that's for sure. And the teachers, who retire and are rehired as administrators, etc....you might be surprised at the number of those double dippers...there's so much money wasted....
Don't get me started;)
 
cawacko said:
There is no group in America that has fought change in public schools more than teachers unions. That's not demonizing teachers it's speaking truth about their union.
Click to expand...

yep, propaganda works better on some than others. It worked well on you. Unions fought for the benefits and wages that Americans enjoyed. But since the war on unions, the wealth gap is worse, benefits are melting away and wages have stagnated. Union organizers fought and died for safer and better working conditions. It took awhile, but corporations won. Now they make the rules without employee input.
 
Thing1 said:
Not sure who is paying attention to this, but it's tough to watch what some of these teachers have to do just to make ends meet. Many work multiple jobs. The salaries they have talked about our incomprehensibly low to me...often just above the poverty line.

OK ranks 49th in teacher pay, but it's not like it's that great in most states.

What does it say about America that we put such a low priority on compensating this profession? I actually can't think of too many professions that I would consider to be more important. It makes no sense, and is a poor investment in our future.
Click to expand...

Low priority? You're kidding right? We spend more per student in this country than just about everywhere else in the world. Yes, there are states like Oklahoma where some teachers are underpaid. But throughout most of the country teachers are actually paid quite well. In my state, Ohio, the base salary in most cities is over $50,000. Many teachers make more than double that, to say nothing of administrators.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
That, as you might well know, depends on your qualifications and skill level. When I first started working in a corporation I received very good pay and benefits but I also had a very strong knowledge, skill and talent level. They offered me an attractive package of pay, benefits, bonus structure and working conditions so I accepted it. Now I have not exactly advanced far as I've only received one promotion in 15 years but that's compensated for by my bonus structure and annual pay increases that almost always exceed the rate of inflation. You are right, Educators do not receive these considerations. Why not?
Click to expand...

Most companies don't pay younger workers good salaries. That's just a fact (that may exclude many of your Ivy League or Stanford grads but they are the expection not that the norm. And there are thousands upon thousands of teachers across the country that get hired every year. How many people with your credentials got hired for your job the year you did?
 
TOP said:
That's a part of the problem, that's for sure. And the teachers, who retire and are rehired as administrators, etc....you might be surprised at the number of those double dippers...there's so much money wasted....
Don't get me started;)
Click to expand...

Double dipping is standard procedure here in Ohio. Teachers here are far from underpaid. They do quite well, as they should.
 
Nordberg said:
yep, propaganda works better on some than others. It worked well on you. Unions fought for the benefits and wages that Americans enjoyed. But since the war on unions, the wealth gap is worse, benefits are melting away and wages have stagnated. Union organizers fought and died for safer and better working conditions. It took awhile, but corporations won. Now they make the rules without employee input.
Click to expand...

So you have no actual comment on teachers unions and their role vis a vis the students. Sounds like you are the one biting the propaganda hard. What is it the teacher unions do for the students that people like Gates and Jobs get so wrong?
 
cawacko said:
Unions don't allow it. For example first year 22 year old teachers aren't going to make $100K. Just now going to happen across the board. Yet if Bill Gates wanted to be a teacher he would make today what a 22 year old would make as a first year teacher. So basically there is zero economic flexibility to pay more for better teachers because unions require pay to be equal across the board based on years worked. Your performance has nothing to do with it. So as long as you are just good enough to keep your job and not be fired you get paid the same as the best teacher
Click to expand...
Oh that is complete and utterly untrue non-sense Wacko. You need to stop demonizing Unions and try putting the shoe on your foot. How would you feel if you were offered a job teaching a Business Class in high school but are told by the administration that instead of teaching established business principles that are standard to your profession that you would be required to teach why socialism is superior to capitalism by an administrator who has never worked in business or studied it? How would you feel about having your work load unilaterally doubled without additional compensation or incentives? How would you feel about your annual salary increase being based on merit metrics that you can't control? Like raising standardized test scores when the parents of the kids in your class are far more concerned about how that kid performs in football than in the classroom and the kids would rather play video games than study or being denied basic material resources and tools required to be productive? How would you feel if you are not permitted to collectively bargain for the value of your work and productivity but your employer can and do collectively bargain for your service? Slight disadvantage for you ehh? How would you feel if your employer was exempted from SS taxes (and therefore you are not eligible for SS) in exchange for a public pension, then fails to fund that pension properly and then tells you that not raising taxes to honor that contract is more important than honoring that contract and funding your pension? Are you, individually going to take on their collective power and expect to succeed? Would you work under these conditions or would you organize to protect your interest in equatable pay and working conditions?

Now an obvious solution to that problem for you would be to say, as I did, screw that I'll do something else for a living but then who would teach? Those so unskilled and untalented that they have no other choice but to work under those conditions?

Sure Unions have their issues and are not completely blameless but they do far more good for Teachers than they do harm to public education unless your expectation is to attract the best and brightest and most productive people as educators only on the conditions that they accept to live in poverty with no ability to influence the conditions of their employment? Let me know how that works out in terms of getting the best and the brightest into the profession.

Given todays political climate you'd either have to be a fool to not have a Teachers union or be insane to be willing to do whatever your told and work for substandard wages when you've made the sacrifices and work to learn the knowledge, skill and talent to be a professional. Good luck finding top tier talent who will agree to that.
 
Last edited:
countryboy said:
Hey, the Redbird should've been a clue, lol. Hello fellow Buckeye.

What did you teach?
Click to expand...
A high school friend took that picture...isn't it nice?
Middle and High School Special Ed...And coached quite a number of sports...mainly swimming;)
Of course, that added significantly to my base salary...not...lol
 
Rune said:
Did she really not know that teachers are not paid well?
Click to expand...

Of course she did. She wanted to be a teacher from age 7 and up, never wavered, never considered anything else. She doesn't complain about the salary; that's *my* job on her behalf (as well as other teachers too).
 
cawacko said:
So you have no actual comment on teachers unions and their role vis a vis the students. Sounds like you are the one biting the propaganda hard. What is it the teacher unions do for the students that people like Gates and Jobs get so wrong?
Click to expand...
Yes I do. The Teachers Unions are not there to look after the students interests. They are there to provide for teachers interests because as a teacher, or any professional for that matter, your first responsibility is to yourself. If you cannot even provide for yourself and your family or advance your prospects as a professional you cannot look after the interests of your students. Would you continue to continue to work in your field if you were expected to sacrifice your own self interests for those of your clients?

It's a silly question. Teachers Unions purpose and function is to look after Teachers. Students collectively have parents, administrations and teachers who look after their interests. I just can't get my head around the double standard that many people have towars educators as professionals that they would never, ever accept for themselves.
 
cawacko said:
Most companies don't pay younger workers good salaries. That's just a fact (that may exclude many of your Ivy League or Stanford grads but they are the expection not that the norm. And there are thousands upon thousands of teachers across the country that get hired every year. How many people with your credentials got hired for your job the year you did?
Click to expand...
You're completely missing the point. I got that opportunity and was offered that package because I was highly skilled and talented. You're argument is a non sequitur and a double standard. So I take you back to my original question. Why not do what corporations do and offer compensation and working condition packages that are attractive to top tier talent? The issue of what low skilled entry level people get paid is a non sequitur as I pointed out. If Educators knew that the skills and talents of their profession are attractively compensated for with rewarding working conditions Unions wouldn't even be needed, would they?

The fact that most Educators are protected by Unions is indicative that this is not the case in reality.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top