4 in 10 now say socialism would be good for US: Gallup poll

Mott the Hoople said:
If 4 in 10 Americans are saying that then it's probably a pretty good indication that the Capitalism isn't working optimally for the labor classes.

In reality though it's a stupid poll or should I say the question of the poll is dumber than a bagful of hammers.

First, most Americans aren't exactly well read and don't know what the definition of socialism is.
Second, for much of our history our country has had no problem using Socialism when the free market fails to provide needed goods and services at reasonable cost. The Postal Service, The Military, Social Security, Public Education, Public Transportation, Public Utilities and Infrastructure, etc., all socialism.

The reverse has been seen too. Eventually the Free Market was able to provide cost effective postal services and as a result the US Postal Service has declined precipitately, as it should.

The point being though is if this polling # is correct and it continues to grow...then it would indicate that the Capitialist class is not sharing an equitable amount of the wealth produced by labor, with labor...but we already know that. One only has to look at the Champaign Glass graph of economic ineguality to see that. The stem of the glass can only be stretched so thin before it breaks with social unrest resulting.
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All of those are paid for by private, capitalist enterprise tax dollars. Without that, none would exist.
 
StoneByStone said:
Well that's why I said the rich should pay more. We're going to need higher taxes on the rich as well as better use of current taxes.

You could look at it that way, but those programs will result in the working-class having more money. And if taxes on the rich are raised, they'd have less money, thus decentralizing wealth.
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Yes, they have more money but only a small portion compared to what government and private business is receiving. I don't think we need more taxes but less spending. The problem with so many government programs is that there is an incentive to spend more.

The IG of Afghanistan reconstruction has blistering reports about offices, barrack, apartments complexes, etc. that remain unbuilt, uninhabitable, incomplete, dangerous, etc. He said he asked the military officers why they would pay contractors for such work they told him thepery were evaluated only how many contracts they gave out without regard to performance.

Colleges have an incentive to get as many students as possible who qualify for loans and grants because they not only get the money for tuition but are largely funded by the state for number of students/semester hours. They know many of the students cannot graduate and a lot will never attend a single class, but the school is getting money and they always claim they are "providing more students a chance at college." I could go on about the wasteful programs which exist because they provide financial incentives to government agencies which may funnel the money through 2-3 private outfits. People who do income taxes tell me about people who come in to calculate how much they can earn to get the maximum Earned Income Tax Credit and then quit work when they hit that limit.

The answer is not to take money away from the wealthy or make them pay more taxes but work to make sure lower income are getting skills and job training. I don't know how to do that but those programs already exist but and not utilized to the full extent.

I am not philosophically opposed to government social programs, but I oppose many of them because they are so wasteful and primarily benefit government employees and private businesses.
 
Gonzomin said:
Same old shit. Repubs hate to help people out and to provide a safety net. There are no socialistic countries and no capitalistic ones either. They are all a mix. We are debating what that mix should be. Repubs, are posting happily about kicking poor people off food stamps are as pleased about slashing the net that saves the poor and downtrodden in any way.
Yet they love to be looted by the top one percent, the people who are really confiscating the wealth for themselves.
As usual, they are looking in the wrong direction.
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What 1% are you talking about?
Do you mean Pelosi? Are you talking about Bill Gates or Soros? Perhaps it’s the Hollywood elites or your Senator or representative.
Who is the 1%?
In your clueless mind, I have to assume the 1% are republicans that voted for Trump. What an idiot.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but there are more Jack asses in that 1% than republicans.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
If 4 in 10 Americans are saying that then it's probably a pretty good indication that the Capitalism isn't working optimally for the labor classes.

In reality though it's a stupid poll or should I say the question of the poll is dumber than a bagful of hammers.

First, most Americans aren't exactly well read and don't know what the definition of socialism is.
Second, for much of our history our country has had no problem using Socialism when the free market fails to provide needed goods and services at reasonable cost. The Postal Service, The Military, Social Security, Public Education, Public Transportation, Public Utilities and Infrastructure, etc., all socialism.

The reverse has been seen too. Eventually the Free Market was able to provide cost effective postal services and as a result the US Postal Service has declined precipitately, as it should.

The point being though is if this polling # is correct and it continues to grow...then it would indicate that the Capitialist class is not sharing an equitable amount of the wealth produced by labor, with labor...but we already know that. One only has to look at the Champaign Glass graph of economic ineguality to see that. The stem of the glass can only be stretched so thin before it breaks with social unrest resulting.
Click to expand...

In this country, my favorite forms of socialism are:
the non-profit, community-owned Green Bay Packers
and the public library system.

Moving overseas, my favorite socialism is the state-owned Norwegian oil company Statoil (may have changed name recently).
Norway's decision to make their national petroleum resources public property and held as a public trust while still open to some private investment was a very wise and far-sighted decision for that country.
 
StoneByStone said:
Does "defense" include bombing and occupying countries that are no threat to us?
Either way, we're wasting a lot of money that could be used for better things.
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I think it's ok because we are good, & we are bombing them for good, their own good, we are helping them to be civilized & good like us..
 
Flash said:
Yes. I agree it is wasteful and counter-productive and provides the best recruiting tool for terrorists, but it is far from most of the budget as you implied.

You want government to spend more on workers and less to the rich, but the very programs you favor are big subsidies for the rich. Food stamps is welfare for farmers, food processors, truckers and food distributors, grocery stores, and now fast food places. Medicare and Medicaid are subsidies for doctors, hospitals, medical supply houses, medical device makers....You want corporations to pay more but want to take away their expense of providing health care to employees. Student loans and grants are subsidies to universities, housing is welfare for real estate interests.
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The "part" can fluctuate, but the fact that we spend far, far, far more than everyone, ALMOST COMBINED is a problem, would you agree??

Everything helps the rich, is there a way around that?? The programs are designed, as you pointed out to help out farmers etc...

Stores didn't want free cheese, & the folks getting snap wanted choice, & the stores wanted in, que sera, sera..
 
Cypress said:
In this country, my favorite forms of socialism are:
the non-profit, community-owned Green Bay Packers
and the public library system.

Moving overseas, my favorite socialism is the state-owned Norwegian oil company Statoil (may have changed name recently).
Norway's decision to make their national petroleum resources public property and held as a public trust while still open to some private investment was a very wise and far-sighted decision for that country.
Click to expand...

Statoil is now called Equinor.
 
Sailor said:
Not really. More of paid for service. All by tax monies of course, nothing the government itself produces or sells. Just steals!
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Yes really. Socialism is when the government controls the means of production. That is true of the examples I provided. The example you provided is incorrect as those tax dollars come predominantly from individual tax payers incomes and not directly from corporate enterprise which isn’t really relevant as, in the examples I sited, like it or not, the Government controls the means of production.
 
Cypress said:
In this country, my favorite forms of socialism are:
the non-profit, community-owned Green Bay Packers
and the public library system.

Moving overseas, my favorite socialism is the state-owned Norwegian oil company Statoil (may have changed name recently).
Norway's decision to make their national petroleum resources public property and held as a public trust while still open to some private investment was a very wise and far-sighted decision for that country.
Click to expand...
For other countries who have done the same, like Nigeria and Venezuela it’s been a catastrophic disaster as the ruling political classes in those countries have used the vast sums of nationalized petroleum dollars to turn their countries into kleptocracies.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
If 4 in 10 Americans are saying that then it's probably a pretty good indication that the Capitalism isn't working optimally for the labor classes.
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why isn't it more likely a failure of American education........4 out of 10 people who post here have no clue what socialism means......why should the entire nation be any different........
 
Mott the Hoople said:
It’s still Socialism. Don’t rationalize.
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actually no.......if it were truly socialism FedEx would not be allowed to compete with the post office........nor would private schools be allowed to compete with public education.....Uber would not be allowed to compete with public transportation.......
 
StoneByStone said:
Because working-class people sending money is not going to help the economy. We need a decentralization of wealth, which means we need to redistribute the 1% wealth.



They'll be sending enough when we have universal health care, affordable college, and UBI. And right now the money the 1% is sending through taxation is being used on wars and to help the rich get richer.
I don't want big government, I just want regulations that help the working-class instead of the rich.
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How much extra are you sending each paycheck, or each year, set the example. make sure it hurts your family!
 
Those who want to redistribute the wealth are too lazy to accumulate their own wealth. How about we redistribute the wealth of the poor? Same wrongheaded mierda.
 
anatta said:
More than 4 in 10 respondents in a new Gallup poll now say that socialism would be a good thing for the U.S.
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It sounds as though at least 40% of us realize that we already have modified socialism and have for a long time. Sucks to be a Fox viewer and out of that loop.
 
No, we have a Capitalistic economy...working extremely well.

Those 4 should head on down to Venezuela...bring food.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Yes really. Socialism is when the government controls the means of production. That is true of the examples I provided. The example you provided is incorrect as those tax dollars come predominantly from individual tax payers incomes and not directly from corporate enterprise which isn’t really relevant as, in the examples I sited, like it or not, the Government controls the means of production.
Click to expand...

Wow Mott. Nothing like being wrong. Who the hell do you think hires those individuals to pay those taxes? That would be private, capitalist enterprise. Not the fucking government. And they do not "control" the means of production. They cannot pay for it without tax dollars.
 
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