White Nationalists v Democratic Socialists!

[Flash]

This is the topic; whether or not there is historical merit to waving the flag about outside of a museum for any reason other than intimidating people.

So again, if you're saying that you don't know from where they got the idea that flag represented their white supremacist views and beliefs, then that means you don't believe the flag has any history to erase.

And your original argument was that tearing these flags down would "erase history". It's literally what you've said.

No, my original argument on this thread is that Americans are not as worried about white supremacists as we are Sander's democratic socialism (which is not really socialism) whether we are for or against Sanders.

What the flag represents was a completely different thread. Nothing has to "merit" them waving that flag--it is their freedom to do so. As I proved in that debate by posting criminal statutes on intimidation that term only applies to an attempt to make a person take some action or stop them from taking some action.

Waving a flag others find offensive does not meet the elements of intimidation or any other crime. Only in a fascist state does a government attempt to prevent such acts. It is a type of intolerance a civil society does not need.

 

[LV426]

No, my original argument on this thread

Flash, your original argument was that tearing down Confederate flags would "erase history", but then you go on to say you don't know from where white supremacists got the idea that flag represented their views and beliefs.

So square that circle.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

The rainbow flag sure seems to intimidate and frighten right-wingers...but the difference is that gay people don't have a 150 year history of lynching straight people.

But you white supremacists do....under that Confederate Flag.

am I a white supremacist simply because i'm white?

OK, so then you would be perfectly OK with me creating a flag that depicted the murder and arson of your family and home, with you hanging from a tree, and me laughing and dancing around the flames with a lit match in one hand and a can of gasoline in the other, and then had that flag fly everywhere you went, got all your neighbors to fly it, made sure every state building flew it, commercialized it by printing it on clothes, bumper stickers, inserting it into movies and popular culture, every minute of every day of every week of every year for your entire life?

Yeah fucking right.

I wouldn't give a damn. It's like someone calling me a cock sucker. It's simply two words put together to illicit a prescribed reaction...............nothing more. same as your flag...........I DON'T CARE ABOUT IT

 

[LV426]

No, my original argument on this thread is that Americans are not as worried about white supremacists as we are Sander's democratic socialism (which is not really socialism) whether we are for or against Sanders.

See, again, you speak from a position where you believe your perspective is the standard and the one that everyone should measure their standards by, and I challenge that because you've done nothing to earn that entitlement that your views are representative of Americans.

What a fucking entitled prick.

You don't speak for Americans. You only speak for yourself. And you don't even do a good job of that, since you contradict your own shitty arguments like saying the Confederate Flag teaches history, but then saying you don't know how white supremacists could have ever gotten the idea that flag represents their beliefs.

That lying contempt is what is the most reprehensible thing about you and why you're a sociopath; you expect me to believe you, who argued the flag has history, suddenly can't discern why white supremacists would think that flag represents their views? You expect me to believe that?

 

[Flash]

You are avoiding a pretty direct question here; why do those people seem to think that flag represents their views and beliefs? Because not answering that question says 1 of two things:

1) That you don't think the flag has any history, even though you've said numerous times that banning it would "erase history".

or

2) You know the flag's history but are hiding behind the 1A which doesn't protect intimidation.

So you have to be honest with yourself here, Flash, which I know is difficult for a narcissistic sociopath like you; do you really believe you don't know from where they got the idea that the flag represents their views and beliefs? Or are you lying about that?




Not important for you because you've given up on trying to see who it is important to.

White supremacist violence is important to the targeted victims of those violent acts like the Charlestown massacre, the El Paso massacre, and the Pittsburgh massacre.

Then, you dismiss those to whom it is important because you aren't personally offended or intimidated and since you lack the capacity to see anything from anyone else's perspective than your own, by telling black people they should be comfortable with that free expression simply because you are comfortable with it, and you think your comfort supersedes everyone else's.

So that's why you dismiss white supremacists; confronting the reality of their power and influence would upset the delicate and artificial BoThSiDeS balance you've negotiated for yourself on behalf of everyone else.

What a fucking joke.

We both know the history behind the flag and why white supremacists are attracted to it--so it is a nonsense question.

As I proved before, intimidation is not protected by the 1st Amendment, but waving a flag is not intimidation. Mass murders, violence, or actual intimidation are a concern to all Americans, but these having nothing to do with flags. Free expression is not a crime and crimes have nothing to do with free expression.

Try to stick to the topic. Personal insults are a substitute for lack of knowledge or rational thought.

 

[LV426]

What the flag represents was a completely different thread.

It's all the same issue, Flash.

What the flag represents is what we are specifically talking about.

Now, you say the flag has history that would be erased if it was banned or torn down, but then you also say you can't fathom from where racists ever got the idea that flag represented their views.

So which is it, Flash, does the flag have history or doesn't it?

Nothing has to "merit" them waving that flag--it is their freedom to do so.

Not if they're doing so to intimidate people, Flash. You don't think the flag is intimidating because you're not one of the people that flag targets for intimidation, and because it is impossible for you to ever put yourself in someone else's shoes, have to disingenuously retreat to this mantra about free expression while literally ignoring the people that flag targets because they don't conform to your narrow zone of comfort.

You don't speak for Americans you refuse to listen to, and you refuse to listen to a lot of Americans.

Waving a flag others find offensive does not meet the elements of intimidation or any other crime.

It's not that it's "offensive" it's that the flag is a tool of oppression, which is why it was erected for decades across the country by white supremacists.

Why would they erect those monuments and flags? What would be the reason? Why would they choose that flag?

 

[LV426]

am I a white supremacist simply because i'm white?

No, what makes you a white supremacist is saying that the Confederate Flag "teaches history" but then ignoring what that history actually is.

 

[LV426]

I wouldn't give a damn. It's like someone calling me a cock sucker. It's simply two words put together to illicit a prescribed reaction...............nothing more. same as your flag...........I DON'T CARE ABOUT IT

BULL-FUCKING-SHIT.

Here's what would happen; within an hour, you would get so disturbed and mad that you would take that anger out in a physical way, whether it was by tearing the flag down or attacking anyone who dared wave it. You'd whine and cry about how you're being made a victim of intimidation because everyone is celebrating the heritage of the flag that represents the murder of your family.

Not being affected by that means you're a sociopath.

So it's a no-win for you; you can't posture the flag doesn't bother you without acknowledging what the flag represents.

 

[LV426]

We both know the history behind the flag and why white supremacists are attracted to it--so it is a nonsense question.

We do?

Because you just said half a dozen posts ago you didn't know why they thought the flag represented their views and beliefs.

So were you lying then or are you lying now?

 

[Flash]

It's all the same issue, Flash.

What the flag represents is what we are specifically talking about.

Now, you say the flag has history that would be erased if it was banned or torn down, but then you also say you can't fathom from where racists ever got the idea that flag represented their views.

So which is it, Flash, does the flag have history or doesn't it?




Not if they're doing so to intimidate people, Flash. You don't think the flag is intimidating because you're not one of the people that flag targets for intimidation, and because it is impossible for you to ever put yourself in someone else's shoes, have to disingenuously retreat to this mantra about free expression while literally ignoring the people that flag targets because they don't conform to your narrow zone of comfort.

You don't speak for Americans you refuse to listen to, and you refuse to listen to a lot of Americans.




It's not that it's "offensive" it's that the flag is a tool of oppression, which is why it was erected for decades across the country by white supremacists.

Why would they erect those monuments and flags? What would be the reason? Why would they choose that flag?

I don't pretend to speak for anybody but myself. However, I am right about the legal aspects of free speech and intimidation. You want to make up your own laws if somebody's speech offends you. On this, most of Americans would overwhelmingly agree with my statements. They are not my views, just correct legal and constitutional principles.

Nobody is being offended unless they choose to attend a march where people are waving those flags.

 

[LV426]

As I proved before, intimidation is not protected by the 1st Amendment, but waving a flag is not intimidation.

No, you don't think it is intimidation because you aren't one of the people that flag targets.

This is what I mean when I say you lack the ability to put yourself in someone else's shoes.

It's impossible for a narcissist like you to do that.

 

[Flash]

We do?

Because you just said half a dozen posts ago you didn't know why they thought the flag represented their views and beliefs.

So were you lying then or are you lying now?

It was not the topic and when I saw you were on one of your hostile, angry rants I did not want to talk about it.

 

[LV426]

Mass murders, violence, or actual intimidation are a concern to all Americans, but these having nothing to do with flags

The flags represent that, and that's why those flags were erected during Jim Crow.

That's the history of the flag that you say you care about so much, while also saying you don't care about or know.

And of course, we have this:



So why would Dylan Roof ever think that flag represented his beliefs and views?

 

[SmarterthanYou]

No, what makes you a white supremacist is saying that the Confederate Flag "teaches history" but then ignoring what that history actually is.

i've never ignored that history. i've always said that REMEMBERING the history is whats important.

 

[LV426]

I don't pretend to speak for anybody but myself.

Un-fucking-believable.

Then why did you say this:

No, my original argument on this thread is that Americans are not as worried about white supremacists as we are Sander's democratic socialism (which is not really socialism) whether we are for or against Sanders.

What a fucking narcissist.

This has been a pretty bad thread for you. You can't seem to keep your argument straight.

 

[Flash]

No, you don't think it is intimidation because you aren't one of the people that flag targets.

This is what I mean when I say you lack the ability to put yourself in someone else's shoes.

It's impossible for a narcissist like you to do that.

No, because it meets none of the elements of the crime of intimidation. Something is not a crime unless you actually violate the definition of that law.

If I am marching down the road carrying that flag and nobody is offended by it, did I intimidate anybody?

You need to go study the criminal statutes for intimidation. You confuse intimidation with offensive.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

BULL-FUCKING-SHIT.

Here's what would happen; within an hour, you would get so disturbed and mad that you would take that anger out in a physical way, whether it was by tearing the flag down or attacking anyone who dared wave it. You'd whine and cry about how you're being made a victim of intimidation because everyone is celebrating the heritage of the flag that represents the murder of your family.

Not being affected by that means you're a sociopath.

So it's a no-win for you; you can't posture the flag doesn't bother you without acknowledging what the flag represents.

NOBODY, least of all you, should ever predict what every single person on the planet is going to do..............simply because you just can't possibly know. doing so is only projecting YOUR reaction to it and prescribing it to all.

 

[LV426]

What the flag represents was a completely different thread.

You can't talk about the flag without talking about what the flag represents.

And before, you said you didn't know how racists could have gotten the idea the flag represents their views.

So were you lying when you said that?

 

[LV426]

Nothing has to "merit" them waving that flag--it is their freedom to do so. As I proved in that debate by posting criminal statutes on intimidation that term only applies to an attempt to make a person take some action or stop them from taking some action.

Yeah, like living or being alive or existing or not being a slave.

Waving a flag others find offensive does not meet the elements of intimidation or any other crime.

Then why do white supremacists seem to think the flag represents their views, which you could consider intimidating views, no?

Unless you don't think white supremacy is intimidating at all to anyone...do you believe that?

 

[LV426]

It was not the topic and when I saw you were on one of your hostile, angry rants I did not want to talk about it.

Of course it was on the topic! The topic is the Confederate Flag.

So why do racists think the Confederate Flag represents their views?