Crowds flock to reopened Jacksonville beaches as Florida hits record coronavirus case

Arks&sparka said:
Making it worse on purpose is stupid
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Agreed....which is why no one is doing it. They all believe what they are doing is best for the long run. Just because some are naive and stupid is irrelevant. It's what they believe to be their best course of action.

Hanlon's Razor:
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity"
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Agreed....which is why no one is doing it.
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throwing our economy down the toilet? Yes we are doing that.

They all believe what they are doing is best for the long run.
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it's not it's foolish. inflating our currency to the tune of 2 trillion dollars so that people can be a couch potato for a month is not giving a shit about the long run. It's saying to the kids in school right now that don't understand you're probably going to pay way too much for everything and make way to little to have a chance at the American dream. Just look at the millennials.

Just because some are naive and stupid is irrelevant. It's what they believe to be their best course of action.

Hanlon's Razor:
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity"
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Agreed. I don't think it's malice, I think it's panic mixed with self-centeredness.

No offense but the boomer generation is notorious for this.
 
Hello Arks&sparka,

Arks&sparka said:
Yes we shouldn't have listened to the WHO and they should be discredited. But I'm willing to bet you are going to argue against that.
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I could tell you had some savvy. I'm glad you joined us.

Arks&sparka said:
They were the ones saying it wasn't going to be a big deal. If we wrote them off, had we had the foresight to know they were a Chinese shill we probably would have been more prepared.
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It is true the WHO said that in the early days, but they quickly turned around. China was in denial for a while, too. That was very wrong. Too bad we went the same route for a while. Big mistake. Very poor leadership. Tragically costly to American lives and it made it worse for the economy in the long run.

Arks&sparka said:
You can't fault political figures for listening to what was considered an expert.
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BS! Of course we can, and shall. A leader who predetermines what he wants to do based on his own public image, and refuses to listen to his own experts is not serving the nation. He is self-serving.

Arks&sparka said:
Giving out funny money just devalues the money you have it doesn't give you any more wealth those repercussions will be seen in a few years when young people not only won't be able to afford apartments and cars.
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This was going to be devastating to the economy no matter what our response. We would have been in a much better position if the president had never signed the tax cut during a good economy. That was irresponsible. He should have tried to reduce the deficit, even achieve a surplus. He said he could completely pay off the debt in 8 years. Now we know that was a lie. He has caused the debt to skyrocket. Now we need credit to deal with this and we have less credit because of that irresponsibility.
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Frank,

I think it will be like 1918, especially with this president.

There will be a cave on opening up too soon, followed by a second peak.
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No doubt the numbers will be shocking, but I doubt it will be as bad as 1918 percentage-wise, but it might exceed the total body count. Welllll shit. I was all set to disagree with you. Looking for facts to back up my response I found out I was wrong. This could be worse than 1918 if we "open up" the economy. ....buuuut let'er rip! States are "laboratories of demcoracy" so let's see how that works.

----
1918 Flu: 675,000 total dead Americans. Mortality rate 0.5%. 25% infected. Total population - 103M

2020 COVID-19: total dead unknown. Mortality rate 1.0%. Infected % unknown. Total population - 328M

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2740912/
The estimated population of the United States on 1 July 1918 was some 103 million (Linder and Grove 1943), so approximately 0.5 percent of the US population died as a result of the epidemic.

https://www.livescience.com/spanish-flu.html
Bristow estimates that the virus infected as much as 25% of the U.S. population, and among members of the U.S. Navy, this number reached up to 40%, possibly due to the conditions of serving at sea. The flu had killed 200,000 Americans by the end of October 1918, and Bristow claims that the pandemic killed over 675,000 Americans in total. The impact on the population was so severe that in 1918, American life expectancy was reduced by 12 years.

Bodies piled up to such an extent that cemeteries were overwhelmed and families had to dig graves for their relatives. The deaths created a shortage of farmworkers, which affected the late summer harvest. As in Britain, a lack of staff and resources put other services, such as waste collection, under pressure.
 
Arks&sparka said:
throwing our economy down the toilet? Yes we are doing that.

it's not it's foolish. inflating our currency to the tune of 2 trillion dollars so that people can be a couch potato for a month is not giving a shit about the long run. It's saying to the kids in school right now that don't understand you're probably going to pay way too much for everything and make way to little to have a chance at the American dream. Just look at the millennials.


Agreed. I don't think it's malice, I think it's panic mixed with self-centeredness.

No offense but the boomer generation is notorious for this.
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You're a Gen Xer? That explains it. :)
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Arks&sparka,



I could tell you had some savvy. I'm glad you joined us.



It is true the WHO said that in the early days, but they quickly turned around. China was in denial for a while, too. That was very wrong. Too bad we went the same route for a while. Big mistake. Very poor leadership. Tragically costly to American lives and it made it worse for the economy in the long run.
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I don't blame people for not knowing at the world health organization was a political lobbyist group. But we know now. And I think Donald Trump made the right decision in defunding them.


BS! Of course we can, and shall. A leader who predetermines what he wants to do based on his own public image, and refuses to listen to his own experts is not serving the nation. He is self-serving.
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we are living in the age of information. But with that comes the realization that experts can be wrong or crooked. That's what we have here. A crooked con artist dishonest political organization that wrapped itself in the cloak of expertise.

I don't think anybody should be put in prison or skinned alive. We just shouldn't give them any more money.


This was going to be devastating to the economy no matter what our response.
Click to expand...
you could say that but we don't really know. What we absolutely no is that 2 trillion dollars that was just given away is it going to have repercussions for decades. And this might become endemic so it might have been for nothing.

We would have been in a much better position if the president had never signed the tax cut during a good economy.
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Cutting taxes coupled with deregulation is good for the economy taxes are like a weight on your ankles and over regulation is like a moose around your neck.

He should have cut spending though.
That was irresponsible. He should have tried to reduce the deficit, even achieve a surplus. He said he could completely pay off the debt in 8 years. Now we know that was a lie. He has caused the debt to skyrocket. Now we need credit to deal with this and we have less credit because of that irresponsibility.
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Spending cases debt to skyrocket. All president's do that.
 
Hello Frank,

Frank Apisa said:
Yeah! The "This came out of nowhere"...came out of...the same guy who once said, "Nobody knew healthcare could be so complicated."

Coronavirus is bad enough to deal with...

...but coronavirus with Trump as president is like fighting the Civil War, World War I and World War II all at the same time.

It is a "perfect storm" scenario. A relentless, invisible enemy...and a moron leading the fight.
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Nailed it.

A astute post.
 
Hello Arks&sparka,

Arks&sparka said:
Beats the idea that old people living a few more years is more valuable than the future. Fuck this stupid kids. Let's inflate the currency more and Bitch about them loving in their parents basement into their thirties and not understand that apartments cost 1500 a month and even if you worked two full time jobs at minimum wage it wouldn't be enough.
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We can lay the blame for housing becoming unaffordable to the working masses on the lack of proper government oversight. This is caused not by the weak and powerless, but by those who hold power in the capitalist empires. What they want goes and what the people want blows.

Arks&sparka said:
Why are so many people economically illiterate?
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Because the rich and powerful have placed so many barriers in the path of the poor, and prevented them from achieving wealth. Redlining and voter suppression would be prime examples.

Arks&sparka said:
The lives lost and destroyed in the wake of this man made disaster they can go fuck off.
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It doesn't really matter where it came from, turning on one another will not solve it. We have to have our basic priorities straight. Life itself is more important than fortunes. It must be accepted that there is no getting out of this with a strong economy. It is going to be devastating; and then we will have to slowly pick up the pieces.
 
Hello Arks&sparka,

Arks&sparka said:
Making it worse on purpose is stupid
Click to expand...

We agree on that, but we disagree on the definition of worse.

Most think it is worse if more people die. And then there are those who are more worried about their fortunes. Many of them were not very well prepared financially, didn't have reserves built up, and are uncomfortable with using the power of government to step in to help in bad economic times. They are the minority.
 
Hello Arks&sparka,

Arks&sparka said:
throwing our economy down the toilet? Yes we are doing that.

it's not it's foolish. inflating our currency to the tune of 2 trillion dollars so that people can be a couch potato for a month is not giving a shit about the long run. It's saying to the kids in school right now that don't understand you're probably going to pay way too much for everything and make way to little to have a chance at the American dream. Just look at the millennials.


Agreed. I don't think it's malice, I think it's panic mixed with self-centeredness.
Click to expand...

The selfishness is on the part of the president who only thinks of himself.

Arks&sparka said:
No offense but the boomer generation is notorious for this.
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BS. The powerful who denied this instead of taking proactive action have made it far worse than it needed to be. Too bad we didn't approach it like Taiwan or South Korea did.
 
Hello Dutch Uncle,

Dutch Uncle said:
No doubt the numbers will be shocking, but I doubt it will be as bad as 1918 percentage-wise, but it might exceed the total body count. Welllll shit. I was all set to disagree with you. Looking for facts to back up my response I found out I was wrong. This could be worse than 1918 if we "open up" the economy. ....buuuut let'er rip! States are "laboratories of demcoracy" so let's see how that works.

----
1918 Flu: 675,000 total dead Americans. Mortality rate 0.5%. 25% infected. Total population - 103M

2020 COVID-19: total dead unknown. Mortality rate 1.0%. Infected % unknown. Total population - 328M

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2740912/
The estimated population of the United States on 1 July 1918 was some 103 million (Linder and Grove 1943), so approximately 0.5 percent of the US population died as a result of the epidemic.

https://www.livescience.com/spanish-flu.html
Bristow estimates that the virus infected as much as 25% of the U.S. population, and among members of the U.S. Navy, this number reached up to 40%, possibly due to the conditions of serving at sea. The flu had killed 200,000 Americans by the end of October 1918, and Bristow claims that the pandemic killed over 675,000 Americans in total. The impact on the population was so severe that in 1918, American life expectancy was reduced by 12 years.

Bodies piled up to such an extent that cemeteries were overwhelmed and families had to dig graves for their relatives. The deaths created a shortage of farmworkers, which affected the late summer harvest. As in Britain, a lack of staff and resources put other services, such as waste collection, under pressure.
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Ouch. Hard to say how bad it will go for us until it is all said and done. We have entered a rough year at least and it is going to get worse before it gets better.
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Dutch Uncle,



I didn't hear that the stores were open. Grocery stores, of course, are open everywhere. But boardwalks, tat shops, souvenir shops, malls?
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Publix, Walmart, Winn Dixie, Target, Home Depot, Lowes, Sprouts, Fresh Market, Harris Teeter, Walgreens, CVS, etc. etc.

Anyone getting Covid.....will not be doing so on the beach but in one of these stores where they herd in like cattle.
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Dutch Uncle,
I didn't hear that the stores were open. Grocery stores, of course, are open everywhere. But boardwalks, tat shops, souvenir shops, malls?
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Still would mean higher traffic in stores for beer, ice and suntan lotion. Can't go back to "business as usual" without expecting a lot more human interactions. Not every store owner can afford masks and Plexiglas shields for their workers. Infections will increase. To what, nobody knows....at least for another few weeks.
 
Hello Arks&sparka,

Arks&sparka said:
I don't blame people for not knowing at the world health organization was a political lobbyist group. But we know now. And I think Donald Trump made the right decision in defunding them.

we are living in the age of information. But with that comes the realization that experts can be wrong or crooked. That's what we have here. A crooked con artist dishonest political organization that wrapped itself in the cloak of expertise.

I don't think anybody should be put in prison or skinned alive. We just shouldn't give them any more money.
Click to expand...

That cut funding for malaria and AIDS programs in Africa. Very irresponsible decision.

Arks&sparka said:
you could say that but we don't really know. What we absolutely no is that 2 trillion dollars that was just given away is it going to have repercussions for decades. And this might become endemic so it might have been for nothing.
Click to expand...

It will end up being a lot more than that. And we totally had to do it. It was bipartisan and unanimous to do it. If we didn't do it the economy would totally crater and there would be a depression.

Arks&sparka said:
Cutting taxes coupled with deregulation is good for the economy taxes are like a weight on your ankles and over regulation is like a moose around your neck.
Click to expand...

There comes a time when taxes have already been cut too much. We already passed that point before GWB was elected.

Arks&sparka said:
He should have cut spending though.
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Like Bill Clinton did.

Arks&sparka said:
Spending cases debt to skyrocket. All president's do that.
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No, actually they do not. But Republicans are far worse at it than Democrats.
 
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